Gadgetopia

I've been trying to pay an EBay bill for the last month, ever since I moved form California to New Mexico. PayPal refuses to accept my new address because they say their computer security system is telling them I am still in California.

I have received numerous computer generated messages to my complaints that indicates that they care nothing for me.

Paypal is the worst, they lied to me and then froze my account with 3200.00 I think asked to speak with a manager who was rude.....I have also had people do chargebacks several months after the transaction was complete and was hit with a 10 service fee on top of taking all my money, this company is the worst and I would gladly join any class action lawsuit, I hope ebay divorces themselves from paypal

Paypal has my $70,000+ and will not release my funds. I have 2 complaints so far and resolved them in less than one day. I faxed in my driver's license and my precious SS# to them and they still would not release the funds. They found out that I have accociation with my supplier and link me to them and they will not unlock my account until my supplier's account gets unlock first. My company and my transaction belongs to me, NOT my supplier. I would love to join class action law suit on their ass.

first of all i have been a paypal customer for 3-4 years,you think they would treat me and faithful customers a little better. i sold a playstation 2 on ebay FEB 22nd 2004. the buyer payed me promptly thru paypal $135.00 AND had a confirmed adress thru paypal to send it to after well over 2 months(APR 23rd 2004) paypal REVERSED(stole) the funds out of my account claiming that the buyer paid me with "fraudulent" funds. first of all, does paypal not check out credit cards and bank accounts attached to thier customers that use thier services? secondly, how would anyone ever know if they recieve a payment thru paypal that is questionable? why am i and others being punished and have to foot the bill for PAYPAL's MISTAKES? it makes no sense to me. they claim an "investigation" is in process. i actually have all the shipping info and insurance form with the buyers CONFIRMED THRU PAYPAL adress on it. this is not fair in the least and im outraged that i have to be responsible for it. paypal has no live customer support. you are at thier mercy it seems like. nobody to talk to on any matter. you just have to wait around while they decide the fate of your money. its been days and i have not heard a thing about my situation they created.

I logged into my paypal account one day to find out it was locked. I did everything they told me to help unlock it but nothing. They said it would take 3 business days for them to look it over, it's been about 2 months. I didn't have a lot of money in there but that's not the point. I didn't really use paypal a lot, but when I need it the most I'm locked out. Save yourself some time, don't sign up for paypal. Don't endure the headaches.

Paypal (an EBAY company) unlawfully attempted to transfer my money to an account with a name other than the one I had entered into their system. They denied responsibility and charged me a fee. They have ripped off millions of people who just can't be bothered going through the difficult process to lodge a complaint. They allowed a fraudulent seller to resell the goods on ebay after letting them take my paypal money, so long as the new buyer paid with paypal they were happy....... If they've robbed you or assisted a fraudster register your complaint with the relevant state consumer authority. Not that it will do any good. There is NO protection for buyers or sellers. BEWARE!!!

Paypal has balls !!! They decided a refund of my money from a seller was a "fraudulent payment" and put a hold on my account. Paypal was NOT even involved in the refund, just the site used to obtain my money, so who the hell are they to go into my account for any reason pertaining to my refund???? What the hell are they investigating? They investigate NOTHING !!!!! They gave MY money BACK to the ebay seller who was auctioning items that weren't even available!!!! And 14 other people fell for his scam also, till I figured it out and notified every single one of them!!!!! All paypal had to do was read the sellers ratings for a (1month period of sales) during their "investigation" like I told them to in every single email I have sent since they've stuck their sticky little fingers into MY money. Their site claims you can "send money to anyone with an email address". That's all this scumbag seller did. He sent me back the money I paid him and that he took fraudulently without any hassle. 6 weeks later...paypal steps in (and I still don't understand why) steals MY money and now has the balls to tell me I'm "NEGATIVE" in my account and to add funds!!!! They charged me a "fee" according to an email reply. Is it me or what????? I also would love to get a class action suit together and SUE THEIR ASS' !!!! Take some of their money and see how they like it. What they're doing has got to be illegal!!!!!

hey all, if i'm not allowed to swear in this report then you gonna be able to read it, these fuckin wankers, im in the uk, i was selling some software on ebay, and my account got suspended, who the fuck are they, there askin me for proof of where i bought the software from, and proof of postage, now, why arnt ebay askin me for all this, its a joke man, paypal have obviously got my personal info from ebay, and paypal want answers, these people are fuckin scum man, i sent some cash to my cousin, now his fuckin account is blocked, what the fuck is going on, my account has £277 in it, and he's account is now minus -£159, now before these accounts got limited, i has £103, and my cousin had £0, how the fuck can he be in the minus, these pricks are gonna get it, i'm gonna post this in all the hack rooms and pay the best hacker in the world to fuck them over, lets start a fund off, and pay the hacker that fucks them up, cuz theres nothing else we can do,

i cant believe no one is going to do anything about it, sooner than later someone is going to get an m16 and go in there blazing,

i want my money you hear me paypal, you fuckin pigs, i have freinds who are solicitors, and they will get fucked, trust me, that money is ours, the account might be theirs, but the money is ours, i couldnt give a fuck about teh account, i just want my money, is it too much too ask for, its pure theft, if i dont get my money, then i expect the people who sent it to me get it at least, why is this money kept by them, its illegal, no fraud has taken place, i know people who work in the TV industry here, and when i say that i mean BBC, they fucked with the wrong person man, i've sent them all teh information they need to take off the limit, if they dont do it, my god, watchdog WILL broadcast this, and it will be big everywhere, so paypal fuck you i'm comin,

DO NOT USE THEM

PayPal kept my $1200 on hold for nearly 6 months and then finally unlocked them. Why the fuck was that? They gave me no reasons! I was just glad to get my money and I didn't questioned them because of fear :-)

I can't fucking believe this!!!! SCAM ALAERT!!!!!! this fucking jerk has payed with a stolen credit card and paypal wants me to pay them because he used a fucking stolen card!!!! now this is the last straw. I'm filing a national complaint with ebay and paypal they are fucking scum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Check my link for more info!!!! PAYPAL and EBAY suck.... they won't get away with this one.

Dude, I hate to break this to you, but that's how the credit card business works. You are the merchant in this instance and if you do not have an imprint of the credit card, then you are liable for a chargeback should that credit card turn out to be stolen.

This is the risk you assume in doing business without the physical card present, since anyone can just give you a number and an expiration date.

Ask any larger mail order merchant about this and they'll tell you how much they lose every year to chargebacks because of stolen card numbers. It's the nature of the beast.

No it does not, so your telling me if i use someone elses credit card on ebay, buy something, then the person complains i get away with the goods that the person sells and make money ? I don't think so

Um, yeah, that's what I'm telling you.

What you have are three parties to this little shindig: (1) the crook, (2) the bank (Paypal itself, in this case, probably), and (3) you. If the credit card is stolen, someone has to take the loss. Who is it going to be?

(1) The crook? No, that's why he's a crook.

(2) The bank? Yeah, right. Why should they take the loss? It's not their fault. When the purchase was made, the card hadn't been reported stolen. The bank acted in good faith so long as they have an approval number. They sought an approval and got it. They've done nothing wrong.

(3) You? Yup.

Look at it this way: do you think you're the first person to get burned by a stolen credit card? This happens thousands of times a day and procedures for dealing with it are well established. I spent four years investigating credit card fraud for the largest credit card issuer in the country (at the time). Believe me -- I heard this same outrage from hundreds of mail order merchants who got stuck taking a charge back.

Take PayPal out of the equation for a second. If you were an independent mail order or e-commerce merchant with a merchant account at Wells Fargo or Bank of America, do you think it would be any different? Do you think Wells or BOA would take the loss for a stolen credit card? Not a chance. PayPal ain't going to either.

I'm sorry you got hosed, but that's the risk you take when you do business without laying your hands on a credit card.

Rob, you wanna jump in here?

Right, thats it. Whoes favor to go to watch dog ? Lets get a group of people together and put a stop to all this stolen credit card business. They are gettin away with this all and i think paypal and ebay have something to do with it. Money making shit. SCUM!!!

Since you asked.

Actually the amount of credit card fraud that actually ends up being the responsibility of the merchant is minor compared to the losses the credit card companies take every year on fraud they cannot chargeback to the merchant.

Paypal is different in that they don't sustain losses from actual missing cards like a large bank would. They can reverse the charges to the seller rather than taking a loss. I'm guessing it's in your user agreement with them and since they are not a bank per se, they don't have to follow the rules every other card issuer in the country does. They're in the odd position of being a merchant who acts like a bank. The normal rules don't apply.

When a customer notices fraud they report it to the bank who issues a chargeback to the merchant (in this case Paypal). Paypal is the end of the line as far as the card company is concerned. If the agreement you have with PayPal states such then they reverse the charge back to you. Again, their service, their rules.

If you think a citizens group to stop credit card fraud will actually work I wish you well. Credit card companies spend millions of dollars per year just to slow it down. They still have a great deal of work to do. The type of fraud you experienced is pretty basic. If only you knew about the fraud they don't tell you about.

Sorry if I rambled a bit.

As a seller on eBay, the only true way to avoid this from happening is to accept only money orders. That will slow down the payment and fulfillment process on your end, and reduce the number of bidders on your auctions, but at least you are guaranteed that the money will be there. Plus, you won't have to abide by the rules which we all read and agreed to with PayPal...you did read it through, right?

Well if we go through television I am sure it would get accross a msg to warn ebay / paypal users of whats going on. This is not fair as paypal DOES NOT state you will be charged IF a person buys goods with a stolen credit card. This is illigal in businesses and legal action can be taken.

well all my cards are cancelled and changed tomorro and if they want money they aint gunna get it, my paypal account is now cancelled this is SCUM!!! We need to get the msg accross not to use paypal... Where is the money going that sellers pay to paypal at the end of the auction? Ebay and paypal are both scum simple as that.

So can any1 confirm for me what action is taken with the seller if he uses a stolen credit card ? anything or does paypal FAKE a investigation?

As a seller on eBay, the only true way to avoid this from happening is to accept only money orders. That will slow down the payment and fulfillment process on your end, and reduce the number of bidders on your auctions, but at least you are guaranteed that the money will be there. Plus, you won't have to abide by the rules which we all read and agreed to with PayPal...you did read it through, right? But i do not have paypal account and can someone help me to get one

Yes paypal are just proper wanke*s, they have tried to say that some weird activity is happening with my account which has over £700 in and they are saying if no details are provided within tens day they will close the account thus me losing the money thats there! but problem is they have only gave me 10 days to sort this out in 4 different ways 1 is they send deposits to your bank which takes around 7 working days, so that leaves me 3 days, then i have to fax them details of proof of whom i say i am, which they say can take upto ten working days for them to look at!!! fucking bastards if u ask me, just tryin to make there own buck

PayPal sucks: now my account is limited for no reason and after I sent them all required docs, they decided to hold my funds for another 180 days! Does anyone know how to sue Paypal in Illinois? I am going to file a suit !

Paypal charges twice what a merchant services would charge to accept a credit cards, sure as a merchant you would be responsible for CC fraud but first the merchant services would give you notice and allow you to contact the customer and authorities 30 days before they take the money from your account, paypal gives no warning at all when they have a questionable transaction, in fact the new trend is for paypal buyers to hold sellers hostage because it only takes the filing of a "Not as Described" claim with paypal and then paypal will take that amount from the seller's account that very day and place the funds on hold forever......then your buyer can blackmail you to pay up or he will never drop the case and it's known that paypal will never solve the case so your money's gone for at least 180 days and you don't know if paypal will find in your favor or not. So most people just pay the ransom in order to have the case dropped by the buyer. With a normal merchant account the "buyer" would have to prove the claim "not as described" in order to reverse a credit card charge but with paypal the "seller" has to prove it's "As Described". Also an interesting note: paypal does not sell goods it provides a service as "electronic funds transfer" of which if you use a Credit Card to send XYZ $100 and paypal does just that, then there is no valid claim with any credit card company as PAYPAL only has to prove they sent the money, regardless of what the money was used....strange that paypal can stay in business....My advise is to use BID PAY or US Postal Money Orders Only, That way when a deal is done it's done!

Well, all this goes to say one thing... those who abide by the rule will always get screwed over by the scum bags that do not.

Paypal does suck. After being ripped off for $475 with defected merchandise, I filed a claim through paypal and won. But even after winning, paypal could not guarantee my funds except for a measly 175 for buyers protection. Now after filing a chargeback through B of A, Paypal has pussied out on the seller and put my account negative 300 (the 175 was still in there). Now I have to pay paypal back because they won't take the money from the seller.

Screw paypal. They threatened to call collections on me so I put a fucking electronic stop payment on their asses.

I'M MAD AS HELL AT PAYPAL THEY PUT LIMIT ON MY PAYPAL ACCOUNT FOR NO REASON I HAVE OVER 2,000 TAKEN FROM ME BY THEM EVERY TIME THEY SAY FAX OVER THIS FAX OVER THAT I HAVE DONE SO..AFTER I FAX OVER THE LAST DOC THEY CAME BACK AGAIN ASKING WHO IS MY SUPPIER WELL I SENT A FAX STATEING I DONT HAVE A SUPPIER THAT I AM A COLLECTOR I BUY AT FLEA MARKETS YARD SALES AS IS ITEM THEY KEEP ASKING FOR THE PPL NAMES HELL WHEN U GO TO FLEA MARKET OR YARD SALES DO U ASK THERE NAMES PAYPAL IS FULL OF SHIT ANYONE KNOWS HOW I CAN SUE FROM GA ???OH THEY CAN BE STOP ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY WITH ME ITS THE POINT OF HOW THEY JUST KEEP TAKEN WELL I WILL NOT STOP TIL THEY ARE OUTTA BUSINESS

I have spoken with two associates tonight that had no idea how to help me to add paypal logos to use paypal as the sole party to accept payment from my buyers. One person, that I could not even understand gave me the complete PUT-OFF, by saying (I sent you email instructions.) This is a PUT-OFF and UNACCEPTABLE! The other girl that tried to help me, took me to paypal auction tools, and showed me some Buy Now buttons to copy and use for my ebay websites. I pasted the text, and ebays says it cannot use the text, it is JAVA-SCRIPT!!! IT WILL NOT WORK! You want my business, got rid of your Technical support...Hired people that can only give ill advise, and send you out an email. Congratulations for reaching a level of COMPLETE FAILURE!!! Disturbed!!!!! David PS Oh, by the way, I never did get the emails promised! It has been over an hour

I was a "middle management type" with Pay-Pal until leaving recently- partally due to my disgust over their internal security policies which have led to the mountain of complaints seen on this and other similar boards. There aren't many PP whistleblowers; during your "exit interview" a soon-to-be-former manager is warned, intimidated and threatened against doing the very thing I'm doing right now. But since I left to start my own business, there's not a thing they can do to me.

Pay-Pal DID start as an honest, legitimate company with an innovative service concept. However, in my opinion, this concept can never actually WORK in the real world because there are legions of scammers all over the globe with reams of stolen credit card info and identifications just WAITING to swoop down on any new "payment service" like this that comes along. Credit-card transactions where the "card is not present" and thus personally examined by a clerk account for the overwhelming majority of fraud transactions. Comparitavely, there's very LITTLE credit card fraud at Wal-Mart, because the cashier actually sees both you and the card- and can ask for supporting identification at the point of sale. Unfortunatly, the high-risk, "card not present" transactions are the ONLY kind of transaction a company like PP can do, and boy- did the con artists find them in a hurry! The basic con was (and is) to use stolen identification information to open new PP accounts, funnel money into them with stolen credit card numbers, then transfer the money OUT of the account before PP gets the charge-back and can freeze it. Unfortunately, despite PP's claims of having a "tough anti-fraud program", these people are mostly impossible to catch, because when opening a new PP account, they DO have all the proper-appearing ID information (which was stolen or conned out of unsuspecting individuals, most of whom have never HEARD of Pay-Pal). When fraud is uncovered and the account is checked out, the perp is almost never caught, since it was almost always opened under a stolen identity, and he's long abandoned the mail-drop.

Yes, the application process COULD be made more stringent, but it is felt (probably correctly) that a brand-new customer would certainly balk at doing things like sending in notorized copies of their driver's licence and so forth. So an "alternate strategy" for offsetting the charge-back losses slowly evolved at PP. It's the perfect scheme really; since PP can't usually catch the scammers and dosen't want to loose customer base by making things more stringent to start with- they decided to simply re-coup their chargebacks from the pockets (and accounts) of good, solid people under the easily-defensible and impossible-to-criticize guize of "Fraud Prevention and Enforcement".. Simply put, if you're a seller and somebody pays you with a stolen credit card, you're targeted by PP security and might very well have your account siezed, "investigated", closed- and the money retained by PP. (Yes... they simply "add" it to their revenues and spend it like any other income. You basically gave them permission to do this under the "terms and conditions" you originally agreed to. No, I KNOW you didn't really read it, but I bet you will the next time!). Even if the person paying you has NOT used a stolen credit card, he could have been been flagged by PP as "somebody to keep an eye on" for any one of numerous reasons. If he does business with YOU, especially multiple times- you're frozen. OCCASIONALLY some lucky soul will complain about the siezure, and when the case is "investigated" by PP he is "cleared" and the money unfrozen. This good fortune has nothing to do with an actual "investigation" (there aren't any, really). Pay-Pal WILL unfreeze a small percentage of the accounts (as a future defense against a potential class action), so you MAY benefit from a simple luck of the draw. See, if it ever comes down to a massive class-action lawsuit, or even testimony before the SEC or other regulatory body, PP wants to be able to stand up in court and say "But your honor, we DON'T just freeze accounts and pocket the money. We really DO perform a painstaking investigation. Here's the proof... look at all these people who WERE suspected, but were then cleared by our "crack security staff"! If this was really a scam, why would we have given all of THIS this money back?"

I'm amused by the posts that say, "But I've been a good customer of PP since the beginning and have paid thousands in fees.... why would they have done this to ME?" Let me answer that with a hypothetical question: If you were an unregulated financial services company so embittered by fraud losses that you, yourself, had completely lost whatever moral compass you might have once possessed, what would YOU rather have: a happy, content customer whos business might account for $5000 worth of fees over the next 10 years, or a person who's pissed off and will NEVER do business with you again, BUT you've got his $5000 up-front, TODAY- siezed directly out of his account with no appeal possible. Believe me, it's a no-brainer to these people. They have sort of developed a wierd corporate mindset wherein their past (and ongoing) victomization at the hands of con-artists somehow gives them license to "pass it along" to others. Think the E-Bay purchase will make it all better? Guess again. If ANY company knows the reality of on-line schermes and scams, it's E-Bay. While they certainly know that a nice chunk of their fees come from people who ultimately turn out to be thieves (but hey... their money is just as green as that of the honest folks) do you think E-Bay wants to open THEMSELVES (or a subsidary company) up to the same risks as their bidders are exposed to? No way.

On another issue, I see lots of complaints from those who have BOUGHT things and paid through PP who find their credit cards suddenly drained and/ or billed multiple times for the same transaction. The answer is simple; PP has very lax hiring procedures, ESPECIALLY compared to the standards any bank would impose on anybody employed in a similar position of trust. But don't forget- PP ISN'T a bank, so they feel no obligation to hire (and, of course, compensate) people as if they were. Unlike the "account freezing" thing, the scams pulled on buyer's credit cards aren't a part of any "master plan" by the company, but simply the work of some dishonest employees who nonetheless have access to ALL of a customer's personal information. Yes, it's scary. Schemes are rampent where a PP employee has a cousin or friend set up an account to receive payments in another name. Since it's an "inside job", these "phantoms" will, of course, sail through the PP application process with flying colors- even if all of the infomation was simply "made up". Then your easily-accessable credit card number is used as payment for phony "auctions" and so forth done through the phantom account. The PP employee who actually approves this transaction might very be the one running the scheme! Given their system and the way the computers are networked together, this is pretty simple for almost any employee to do. Even if you DON'T have access to the PP customer database, you almost certainly have lunch in the break room or visit at the water cooler with someone who does. Many people have been quietly terminated for this (rarely, if ever prosecuted- since this would be a huge black eye for the company), and in reality, THIS is where the majority of PP security and investigative resources go: to policing their shoddily-selected workforce.

So, If you STILL want to use PP- here are a few tips for merchants to avoid being taken by them. But really; from a moral and ethical point of view- would any decent person want to be in a position of supporting this ongoing Ponzi scheme- even if it COULD be guarenteed that you, personally wouldn't be ripped off by it?

1. Give PP only ONE account to access, then make sure that the monies are cleaned out the moment deposited funds become available- and transferred to an account that PP can't touch.
2. After somebody has paid you through PP, NEVER do business with that individual a SECOND time- at least not through Pay Pal. This is a huge red flag to them, since scammers who get hold of a good credit card number but don't know the spending limit will "hammer" it through the same PP account several times until it's maxed . Don't forget- they're looking for ANY remote justification for siezing your money- since under the "terms and conditions" you agreed that this was OK with you.
3. Never, ever, do business with anybody from Asia or Africa. ESPECIALLY Nigeria. With PP "security", you're venturing onto slippery ice even if you deal with a bona-fide American with an African or Asian sounding name. No kidding. I don't mean to sound like a racist here- but that's simply the way it is: an automatic "guilty until proven innocent" red flag.
4. If you ARE frozen, accept the reality that this isn't some mistake that can be corrected by an e-mail or phone call to a nice customer service person; you've been SCREWED, and it's NO accident or misunderstanding. This company is now your enemy and is probably not inclined to do anything to help you, unless you're one of those unfrozen for "show" purposed as described above- but I'll bet they don't even account for 2%. So don't waste your time with "customer-no-service" e-mails and phone calls. Yes, most of the contact numbers listed on this site are accurate and the people listed are real employees- but believe me; they generally have NO power to say anything but "NO." If you've been frozen, your "case" goes to a special group within "customer service" who's entire mission statement could be summed up as "we've got the money, we're going to keep the money, so explain this to the customer in any plausible fashion- as long as the final answer remains ''we get to keep the money'." Also, these folks will oftern be extremely rude to you- which is all part of the plan; you weren't really supposed to call them in the first place, and they don't want you to even THINK about calling back. Those repeated requests for copies of drivers licences and so forth are simply a ruse and a stall tactic. Believe me... they KNOW who you are, and this information does NOT keep getting misplaced. They're wearing you down, and it usually works. By the THIRD request for you to gather and send the same information, they most people will simply give up and say "it's not worth it." Don't threaten to sue or waste your money having a lawyer send PP a threatening letter, 'cause it dosen't work. People who SAY "I'm gonna sue" DON'T 99.9% of the time, and PP knows this. What DOES work is to hire an attorney and actually FILE SUIT. When they're hit with requests for discovery and are faced with having to send executives to depositions and so forth- most of the time your case will be "re-investigated". You'll then be cleared and your money will be returned. If that dosen't fix it, then, for some reason Pay-Pay must really, really feel that you ARE scamming. Most people simply won't go this far, since hiring an attorney, filing suit and so forth actually exceeds what PP has taken from you- and believe me, they DO know this.

For buyers the answer is real simple: NEVER use PP under any circumstances. Ever. You simply have NO control over who has access to your information, and your bank wouldn't touch some of these PP people with a ten-foot pole. Want to use a credit card to pay for an auction item but don't want to get double and fraudently billed? Go down to the bank, use that same credit card to buy a cashiers check, then mail it to the seller. You have the exact same protection doing business that way as you do through Pay Pal, but you avoid the numerous risks of involving yourself with them- which, of course, go WAY beyond having to eat a thousand dollar loss because some guy didn't send your merchandise.

Looking for an alternate payment service? I can't honestly recommend one, since all of the others are prey to the same vultures that hit PP so hard. So I guess the system that works the best is one I'd simply call "pay, pal... "; you simply do business the old fashioned way: check out the seller as best you can, write a check and hope for the best- or simply deal locally. Given the realities and risks of "card not present" credit card transactions, I can't honestly see how any company who tries to do what Pay-Pal does could avoid becoming just like them, or else find themselves forced out of business under a mountain of chargebacks.

Any attorney who has a pending class-action suit against Pay-Pal and could benefit from my testimony can contact me at: expay-palguy@wildmail.com. Similary, I'd love to hear from any former Pay-Pal managers who also feel morally obligated to "come out of the closet". I KNOW you know what this company is all about- and perhaps it's time we did the right thing by the people we unwittingly helped them loot. It would help me sleep better at night- how about you? Sorry, as much as I feel for you individual victims, I won't deal with individual court actions against PP- as to do so would doubtlessly consume ALL of my time, since there are so many. Similary, I also can't intervene with the company on behalf of somebody who has been wronged. Follow my suggestion for getting your account unfrozen, and that would truly be your best shot.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ex Pay-Pal manager

Having gone through the "process" I can confirm every word in the above post. What I was shocked with is the rudness and unproffesionalism of their customer reps when I called them.

Hope it will stop somebody from a mistake I did by signing with paypal. Up to date I lost about 6300 usd in frozen funds that were never UNfrozen, not considering a great deal of my time and nerves.

This company is simpy in violation of any human ethics. I was a customer with them for more than a year, have paid thousands in fees, had a high rating, a small ammount of disputes ( those that I didn have I tried to resolve in a timely manner). What I got in exchange - humiliation. Thanks, paypal.

i wanan sue paypal they didnt help me WORST CUSTOMER SERVICE THAT DONT HELP, thanks for nohting FUCK THEM

PayPal offered the worst customer service that I ever encountered. I am trying hard to solve all my disputes to have my accounts restored. And even after I have solved my business account's disputes, they just limited my personal account. The reason is that my account has some links to one account which still has negative amount. I was totally unaware o f this and that is not my account!!!
Their service is slow and leave your business idle if you need to use their services. It is common that even I have submitted the same information several times, they still kept asking you to submit and ignoring your explanations.

Paypal has wrongfully blocked access to our company paypal account (and the money within) since January 5th 2006, without cause, citing that “We have received complaints from at least one buyer who indicated that they purchased merchandise from you and never received it.” That complaint been resolved for over 2 months. My company processed over 38,000 orders in 2005 – the way they are treating me is substandard, and very unprofessional. As of today, there is currently $605.31 in this account, which paypal refuses to release. I could forward all of the cut & paste responses I have received, but that is futile.

You know the crap from ebay.......

eBay Australia Customer Support wrote:

Hello,

Thanks for writing in. I'm Cherie.

First of all, I would like to apologize for the delay in our response to your email. Your concerns are important to me and I appreciate the opportunity to assist you at this time.

Please note that the Unpaid Item infraction you received for this transaction has been removed from your account because this was your first appeal of the Unpaid Item Policy.

I will continue to investigate the seller and take appropriate action upon the completion of my investigation. Unfortunately, due to privacy concerns, I cannot provide you with any details regarding this investigation or the actions taken. Please rest assured that I will take appropriate action.

Unfortunately, eBay doesn't actually handle the merchandise that is offered for trading. Without first hand knowledge of the item, we are unable to guarantee the accuracy of the listing information.

We encourage members who are interested in bidding on an item to email the seller for additional information. Be sure to ask the seller specific questions regarding age, authenticity and condition of the item before bidding. In the unlikelihood that the seller doesn't respond, you may want to reconsider your bidding decision.

Oh bullshit, bullshit, bullshit..........

Dear Cherie.

In response to your email....

What a lie.

The unpaid item infraction shouldn't have been removed because it was my first appeal.....

It should be removed cause the seller was selling second hand fans, as new ones....

That is not only a conjob, it's illegal.

I had previously asked you guys to act upon this 2 X, before this fellow made an unpaid items dispute, and both times you did absolutely NOTHING about it....

I have been building and running computer systems for over 20 years - in the field of IT., and it was after I bought the fans I went, "Hang on a second, there is something not right here... - and I lifted the image of the fans and zoomed in a little on them and they have dust on the leading edges of the fans and in some of the recess's - consistant with picking up dust while running".

I told you guys, I sent you the images he had put on his site and you guys did nothing.....

So it's not like I have to come crawling for forgiveness or sucking up, "Oh please don't close my account".....

And the EBAY administration already has a bad enough reputation for creaming profits.. by trampling the buyers and conding the conduct of rotten sellers - who have hundreds of complaints against them for not delivering the goods etc., because sellers make the money, and despite the fairyland stories about "the ebay community", - money is all the Ebay management are interested in; and the customer supports reputation is well earned as being bloody awful - and worse...

So you may as well save your automated and manufactured response for those who are gullible enough to swallow it....

Because I have as much respect for the management and administration of ebay as I do for that scumbag junkie George Bush and his sleazebag toady - John Howard.

There are more and more competitors in the market place, and even if my account was closed, after all the really, really, really, bad and indifferent service from the Ebay management and customer service deparments, I am more than happy enough to go elsewhere.

Your failure to act upon the complaint in a timely fashion has cost me time and effort to keep my account open and to clear up my name in relation to a dishonest seller, that I should not have had to expend.

The greed, the apathy, the indifference, the lazyness, the manufactured replies, bouncing customers around - backwards and forwards for ever and ever.......

Ebay's management and staff's attitude to customers is so bad - and the stadard of service is so bad, that I really I don't care anymore.

Shane.

Since everyone is having all of these problems with Paypal does anyone know of a great alternative? Is there any other web site that works just like Paypal, but without all of those hassles?

I'm currently involved in a dispute with Paypal. They really are bastards. I sold an lp on ebay to this guy in germany. I live in Canada and sent the lp using standard shipping service with no insurance. 2 weeks after the auction ended, the buyer made a dispute requesting a refund because he hadn't recieved the lp yet! I let him know that it could take 6-8 weeks for the lp to arrive. Of course, paypal only gave me the option to either refund this son of a bitch or enter a tracking #. There is no tracking info on this shipment as its standard delivery without insurance. So I'm fucked! I tried contacting the buyer to work it out but he wouldn't email me back. I finally got an email from him when he recieved the record (in just under 4 weeks!) a day before he was scheduled to be refunded. After a lot of screwing around, paypal sent me an email confirming that I had given enougoh info to prove I sent the item and they would contact me if needed. Unfortunately they still refunded him and now I have no lp and no money!!!

yeah...well I have been dealing with paypal on and off for years, they stole thousands from me too...yeah yeah yeah. I got them back though. see, when i was selling on ebay, i got payed for my auctions through paypal. paypal limits me for no reason that I could find. so I have to contact the buyers and tell them you paid paypal and I never got the money. they all say the same shit..."i have used paypal forever and I never have these problems" its simple. if you never get screwed by pypal, you think they are great. well I dont send the products because I didnt get payed. I explain this to the customers, they say Im scamming, file complaints with ebay, and my seller account gets suspended. Then I get hassled by the police because one guy locally wants his money back through paypal. says I stole it. well..the police let it drop because if I never got the money, it isnt fraud. at any rate, what paypal did was essentially make me look like a fraud. Fine. so I got them back Real good. for the last few years I have had on several occasions sold Items that I have, like some nice laptops and such on ebay. I take the money through yet a new paypal account. i get a pre-paid credit card and tie it to the account. its all legit in my name. I then buy things with that balance right away on ebay from high profile sellers with millions of good feedback. these people never lose their paypal accounts because they hacve such a high credit rating. yes this matters with paypal. IF YOUR CREDIT IS REALLY GOOD, THEY WONT DARE TOUCH YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT. after 2 or 3 days, paypal limits my account. No worries though, I already bought what I wanted, by now its on the way. I contact the buyers to what paypal has done, and they file a claim with paypal and report to their credit card company a dispute. Now heres the best part. I asked for credit card paypal payments only on my auctions. the BUYERS get their money back from paypal. They didnt lose. The sellers I bought from are protected with their excellent credit ratings and paypal wont mess with them. guess what happens? Paypal has to eat that money. Thats right. that account goes negative, and that prepaid credit card I had on file was already reported stolen and cancelled looong before they ever find out. Am I wrong? I dont think so. I got my thousands back from those fuckers at Paypal.

I have also recently been a victim of PayPal's grossly unfair complaints process and am extremely pleased to find such forums exist, although it's not so great that we have to write to such a thing about a payment system that claims to afford both buyer and seller protection.

We have an eBay buyer who is trying to get around our very clear selling and refund terms on eBay by using PayPal's complaints process to force a refund. The buyer has even boasted that she knows how PayPal works and knows she'll get the refund. PayPal has awarded the buyer a refund with minimal explanation and minimal opportunity for us to explain our side of the story, they haven't even asked whether we have had the item returned OK by the buyer. They've now limited our account (as sensibly we've emptied it) and refuse to lift the limitation until we've provided funds for the refund. That's not going to happen.

PayPal has a grossly unfair complaints and mediation process which does not allow both sides of a story and hence proper investigation to be carried out.

I WOULD URGE ANY EBAY SELLERS NOT TO USE PAYPAL AS YOU ARE AT RISK OF LOSING MONEY FROM FRAUDULENT & SNEAKY BUYERS WHO KNOW HOW TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM.

PAYPAL DO NOT AFFORD ENOUGH PROTECTION TO EBAY SELLERS!

I am based in UK and one of my users have filed a chargeback. The original transaction was covered by Seller Protection hecen paypal asked me for the tracking number. I provided the tracking number and the site www.city-link.co.uk For some reason paypal is treating this as a non verfiable tracking even though city-link is the largest courier company in UK and the ship can be tracked from thier website.

Does anyone know if anything can be done about this and why paypal disregard information like this?

Paypal froze my account with $5232.00 in it because I sold to much of the same item on ebay. I find gps for low price purchase it then sell it on ebay and after doing that for 3-4months paypal decided I have to turn in receipts for all my items I sold or they will not release my money for 6months. I faxed over all my information numerous calls. All in all they told me to find a way to collect every receipt or otherwise F(%$ off and wait 6months. Cant wait to see what kind of tricks they pull off during that 6months to rid my money or hold it longer after the 6months. Good Job Trusting Your 2-3 Year Customers!

Paypal are some scammers. I sold an item on ebay and paypal assures me that they have to hold the money from the buyer until I send a track number, for security reasons. I did my part and sent the package which cost $40 dollars since it was out of the U.S. and gave them the tracking number. They told me that the funds would be put into my paypal account but never did. For some reason I don't think that customer exist because he says that he was a international soccer player from Africa but his name was as american as ever. Then I bought a pair of shoes on Ebay and transferred the money to my account to pay for the shoes, they stole the money then sent me an e-mail saying that someone other than me (???) was in my account and that they had to block it. How would they know that someone other than me was messing with my account? After that these assholes have the nerve to take $500, $175 and $81 dollars from my checking account causing my account to go into an overdraft. They people at Paypal have nerves and will follow up in there lies to make you believe that bullshit. Never fuck with these people, don't buy shit that has paypal dealers or set up account unless you want to be scammed and pissed. Learn from my experience.

Paypal are some scammers. I sold an item on ebay and paypal assures me that they have to hold the money from the buyer until I send a track number, for security reasons. I did my part and sent the package which cost $40 dollars since it was out of the U.S. and gave them the tracking number. They told me that the funds would be put into my paypal account but never did. For some reason I don't think that customer exist because he says that he was a international soccer player from Africa but his name was as american as ever. Then I bought a pair of shoes on Ebay and transferred the money to my account to pay for the shoes, they stole the money then sent me an e-mail saying that someone other than me (???) was in my account and that they had to block it. How would they know that someone other than me was messing with my account? After that these assholes have the nerve to take $500, $175 and $81 dollars from my checking account causing my account to go into an overdraft. When I sent the and e-mail to telling them that theres no trust with them and that if they don't get that issue resolved that im taking matters into my hands they never responded. The people at Paypal have nerves and will follow up in there lies to make you believe that bullshit. Never fuck with these people, don't buy shit that has paypal dealers or set up account unless you want to be scammed and pissed. Learn from my experience.

Don't believe for a moment paypal provides fair reviews of disputes.

I just got screwed by paypal. A buyer falsely accused me of sending a different powerbook than in the ebay listing picture, and demanded her money back. When I showed proof that it was the same, she then filed a complaint that it differed significantly from the description. Fianlly, she said "it wasn't what I was expecting."

We went to dispute resolution with paypal. I told the buyer not to send the computer back until the issue was resolved. She sent it back anyway. The day after it arrived I got a letter from paypal saying that since the computer was in my posssession they had refunded the buyer, without ever reviewing the complaint. In short, the buyer initiated a bogus claim and then successfully circumvented a fari review, all with the support and approval of paypal.

I never got a review of the original complaint. They justified their actions on their User Agreement. In fact, the User Agreement does not allow complaints that the item doesn't meet the buyer's expectations, only where the item was intentionally misrepresented, which never go to a fair review anyway. So paypal violated their own User Agreement in even accepting the omplaint, and then ruled in favor oa a bogus claim, and took my money.

Don't believe for a moment paypal provides fair reviews of disputes.

I just got screwed by paypal. A buyer falsely accused me of sending a different powerbook than in the ebay listing picture, and demanded her money back. When I showed proof that it was the same, she then filed a complaint that it differed significantly from the description. Fianlly, she said "it wasn't what I was expecting."

We went to dispute resolution with paypal. I told the buyer not to send the computer back until the issue was resolved. She sent it back anyway. The day after it arrived I got a letter from paypal saying that since the computer was in my posssession they had refunded the buyer, without ever reviewing the complaint. In short, the buyer initiated a bogus claim and then successfully circumvented a fari review, all with the support and approval of paypal.

I never got a review of the original complaint. They justified their actions on their User Agreement. In fact, the User Agreement does not allow complaints that the item doesn't meet the buyer's expectations, only where the item was intentionally misrepresented, which never go to a fair review anyway. So paypal violated their own User Agreement in even accepting the omplaint, and then ruled in favor oa a bogus claim, and took my money.

The only reason why my account in Paypal was held was because I had a huge spike in sales. I usually did about $100 per month in sales. Then, a friend told me to do what he does and place an ad in the local newspapers stating you will buy used cellphones. I paid the least I could for them and re-sold them on Ebay. This caught their attention fast. That's when I could no longer use my funds and so I couldn't ship like I said I could in the adds. Imagine trying to spend $100 per week just in shipping when you don't make anything suddenly.

To me, I believe that Paypal knows how to get away with robbing people who seem to make a nice living off Ebay. After I refund the people who bought from me and got upset they couldn't have their phones immediately, I'll return to Ebay, but only accept money orders. It's the best way to go and I did just fine when I started my Ebay ID not accepting Paypal. Once I began using Paypal, so many problems came to my email account.... including SPAM!!

People who've been wronged would do alot more damage than they know if they'd contact a newspaper or some form of media and just try to inform people of what Paypal is capable of. From all the complaints I've seen on the internet, Paypal would not exist today if people didn't unite, but rather just use the media. The media is more powerful than anyone might realize. Try it and see.

I am a seller on Ebay, been selling laptops on Ebay(a powerseller) and own a Paypal account for 2 years, I list auction on Ebay, and always place order with supplier once I have received bid & payment from buyer, recently Paypal locks my account up and tell me I must have items in stock before I can withdraw money from Paypal. And I placed 90sets laptop from my supplier immediately, and faxed in the documents, after they receive my docs, they close my account telling me they feel my account has potiential high risky. And all money I received in my account for that week (around $28000) is all frozen, I try to explain to my buyers but non of them care whtat paypal did, and file in with Ebay & Squaretrade, and my ebay account is suspended, paypal wouldnt let me refund my buyers but locks my funds, now my ebay account is suspended, my paypal acount is frozen, and I still owe my supplier around $45000, and Squaretrade is going to press charge on me for the buyers, this is a horriable nightmare, being an honesty seller for 2 years but paypal bankrupt my company within a week. I called paypal to ask them to solve this matter the caused, they tell me they have the right to close my account at any time, and they going to hold my funds for 180 days. I hope that all people ripped by Paypal can gather up together and press charge on Paypal to serve justice right.

To all my fellow Paypal haters. I absolutely hate Paypal and Feel it is the crappiest company on the auction planet. Most times contacting Paypal they will tell you that you will need to write to them via email. Well I have all those nice email addresses for you. Please make a note that you can not place multiple entrees in the To when composing the email because it is picked up as spam to Paypal. You will need to compose an email and then send it to each address separately and you will get someone to answer you, it might take 20 times but be persistant. These are the emails you will need to punish Paypal for all the miscomfort they have inflicted upon us all.

crme@paypal.com, aup@paypal.com, appeal@paypal.com, harbor1@paypal.com, service@paypal.com, account-review@paypal.com

BidPay is now open for business again. CyberSource bought BidPay from Western Union and is offering an online payment option for auctions only. CyberSource is on of the largest credit merchant processors they process credit cards for restaurants, bars, clubs, stores, and gas stations. So do not fret they are a great service and the rates are not that bad. Just go to www.bidpay.com.

If you sell things on a website then use Google Checkout it is a great new service with very low rates, actually the best rates for processing credit cards, you won't need a merchant account or a gateway. Find out more at https://checkout.google.com/

With the use of both of these services you can tell Paypal to go jump in a lake and you'll be happier then ever. I use both services and both have good customer service when you run into a problem. Good luck to all my fellow Paypal haters. LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN PAYPAL SUCKS.

I wish the 9/11 terrorists had flown into the Paypal building to be honest... Death to all those responsible for their policies. I mean it. The lowly minions could have the day off when the planes flew in. They make enough money to do 'more' than what they do in relation to customer treatment. One can debate how much 'more', but not the reality of 'more'. Fuck you you fuckers. You are worse than a bank! I haven't actually lost any money through Paypal. Always been careful to withdraw funds before sending goods to accounts Paypal can't touch. However, suffered all the other misery. I feel for all you guys who lost lots of money. I really do. Die, die, die, die, die. Hate. hate, hate, hate, hate. I am actually quite a happy soul. However, I can talk like this about Paypal without even feeling bad. It's just the truth. Ha ha ha.

I purchased an item on Ebay through PayPal, using my credit card. Credit Card was also my default method of payment on my account. Today, I found out that PayPal took the money out of my bank account INSTEAD OF MY CREDIT CARD!!!! Crooked is the only word I can offer to describe the way they conduct buisness. If someone can set their Credit Card as their default method of payment, AND choose Credit Card as the payment, then why would you take money from a different account.

paypal makes ppl really fucking sick! those fuckers block my fund without any reasons!

i start my ebay business 2 months ago and signed up with pp. business as usual and i have earned +$700 until today i get the dread notice from them saying my account is frozen because it was linked with a negative balance account. i know nothing about that frozen account in the beginning. only when i call 1-402-935-2080 they told me that account has a balance of -$1900. wtf?!

i ask them how they reach their conclusion but they won't tell me. they said they can link you to those frozen accounts if they believe your personal info looks similar. then the agent told me all i can do now is to email the owner of that frozen account to straight it out or i have to wait 180 days to get my hard earned cash back.

how am i supposed to straight it out -$1900 with someome i don't know? and i wonder if i can get my $700 back after 180 days! this is awful.

does anyone has experiences like this b4?

btw. i switch to www.moneybookers.com now.

Paypal are just a big con, they will freeze your account and then any funds you have in your account at the time they earn interest on. Nice little earner for them, and if you cant get your account unblocked which trust me is not easy! they keep your money indefinatly youl never get it back in any shape or form!

I say everyone boycott paypal. They have blocked my account because someone sent me a payment and then had there account blocked for some reason, so paypal said i was associated (linked) to this account because i has accpeted a payment from them! WTF!

I fucking hate them i wish they would really piss off some top laywer or someone with enough money to take them to court and rape them of every penny! They prey on people who dont have much money in there account hoping that these people wont be able to take it any further which is usually the case

PAYPAL BURN IN HELL

PAYPAL IS BOLLOCKS i had my paypal account limited beacause i started selling stuff... and for some reason they thought that was dodgy...FAIR ENUFF i go through all the ways to lift the lmited account ...there are 4 steps i had to do befroe it is lifted....1 . they ring u up and confirm your address... tried doing that NO PHONE CALL 2 . paypal sends u 2 small amounts of money to your bank to confirm ur bank details...that took over a MONTH 3 paypal sends u a letter confirming your address 4 you ned to send yor email address etc via the fax machine right1-3 i ve done but NUMBER 4?!?!?! I DONT EVEN HAVE A FAX MACHINE !!!!!! WHY DO WE NEED A FAX MACHINE JUST TO HAVE A NORMAL ACCOUNT AND SEND AND RECIEVE MONEY ELECTRONICALLY I THOUGHT BUYING ONLINE WAS SUPPOSE TO BE THE EASY WAY TO SHOPPING?!?!?!?!?!?! there are about 4 items that are still unpaid for and sellers are threatenin me to open disputes and stuff if i dont pay....ALL BECOS PAYPAL LIMITED MY ACCOUNT if anyone can help me email me yiunam1@hotmail.com i would appreciate it cheers.......btw PAYPAL ARE CUNTS

fuck paypal, this is bullshit, i sold some online items on a game, and i ahvent even got chargedback yet but i know i will because its bullllllllSHIT. My friend just got fucked and now its my turn . THIs happend a year ago to myo ther account and it got frozen. now its gona happen to this one. fuck.

These people are fucking assholes. They are holding onto $1,300 of my money and won't give it back. I have a friend who is going to help me sue them. How the hell can these people still be in business with all the money they are stealing from people?

Ok first of all PAYPAL FUCKING SUCKS ASSSS!! This buyer bought a xbox from me and i shipped it to him. It was in working condition and when he recieved it he said he wanted a refund because it didnt work. I told him it was in working condition when i sent it and that it could have been due to the usps system since he didnt buy insurance i didnt have to refund it for his money either... BUT no he decides to ship it back and open a dispute to get his money back. When i get the xbox i check it and it has been banged up and doesnt even look like the same one, i opened it up and the serial number to the hard drive WAS DIFFERENT! I told paypal all about this in the dispute! BUt guess what they do, they decide the buyer should get ALL THE MONEY! Even the money i used to send him the item. So i got ripped off for around 150 bucks of nothing a fucking broken xbox that the buyer clearly damaged and wanted a free refund. IM SICK OF PAYPAL AND WANT TO FUCKING KILL THOSE BITCHES! DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT I SHOULD DO! THEY HAVENT REFUNDED HIS PAYMENT BECAUSE I HAVENT CONFIRMED THAT I RECIEVED THE ITEM, BUT I HAVE AND THEY HAVE THE TRACKING NUMBER AND WILL CHECK IT SOON. WHAT SHOULD I DO TO SAVE ALL OF MY MONEY!!!!!!! HELP!!!!!!

I sold several ps2 chubbys. Every one was happy. No reason for alarm. I go to florida for the worst weeks of winter and this time I was there 2 months... Working. I was told that my funds were frozen first for identification purposes. A week after I faxed, from florida, my social security card and license, it was a "suspicious transaction" problem. I heard everything I have read here. I have heard shit none of you would ever believe. I was stranded 2000 miles from home for two months. Two months in sunny florida doing concrete work to get fucking food and pay my cellphone bill and send faxes and send 1st class mail to retrieve documents to fax from home. And And And. And they kept all my cash hostage. No special reason.
heres what you all don't know. That money is REAL and all theirs as long as those accounts are frozen. They have it in another bank where it earns interest. A huge amount of interest. so if you pop up with ten grand all of a sudden you get frozen for nothing.

1. DON'T EVER PUT YOUR MONEY ANY WHERE BUT A FDIC BANK
2. PAYPAL IS NOT A BANK
3. USER AGREEMENTS MEAN SHIT WHEN YOU ARE NOT A BANK
4. PAYPAL WILL RARELY FREEZE AN ACCOUNT WITH UNDER 100$ THEY ARE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO LEAVE THE MONEY IN THE PAYPAL SYSTEM TOO LONG

JESUS CHRIST TELL PEOPLE> ANY TIME A HUMAN VOICE SAYS PALPAL TELL THEM ABOUT ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO GOT FUCKED AND HOW. BETTER YET JUST GOOGLE ... FUCK PAYPAL.

I cant even being to explain the HORRIBLE service at Paypal. I am a tolerant man - but the run aroung these retards put you on is WAY beyond me! I am so FUCKING angry - I swear to god I would love the chance to kick the living shit out of the bastards over there! ASS HOLES!

EAT SHIT PAYPAL!

Paypal can freeze your account and funds if they decide to link it to another email address. Even if it does not belong to you.

This is the email I got from paypal. We're sorry, but your account access limitation cannot be lifted at this time. We need more information about your account before we can restore full access to your account. Please complete the steps below so that we may review your account further: Your account is linked to another PayPal Account by one or more pieces of personal data. Because of this matching data, PayPal feels that you are somehow involved with that account. This other PayPal Account has been locked from further use due to the fact that it has maintained a negative balance of $48.25 for an extended amount of time. At this time, in order to further process your appeal, the negative balance of $48.25 will need to be paid in full.

To resolve the negative balance, please send a check or money order to:

PayPal P.O. Box 45950 Omaha, NE 68145

• Please note the email address of the account to be paid.

If you have any further questions, or can provide evidence that you are not associated with this negative balance account, please feel free to contact us again.

Sincerely, Matt PayPal Account Review Department

I am not going to get into the frustrating details of the hell paypal and ebay have put me through its all been said over and over. Fact is they discriminate against who they want they team up to keep out who they want. they notoriously took countless amounts of money from helpless victims and have unjustly taken money from our bank accounts claiming to the banks we owed it to them and we are all ignorned and for years nobody has managed to put an end to what paypal and ebay have been doing to everyone. LETS STOP TALKING WE NEED TO START BANNING TOGETHER FOR REAL forget the lawyers forget the government and the paypal sucks sights and the bbb NOBODY IS GOING TO DO ANYTHING they are laughing at us racking our brains to be heard and they meansing paypal, ebay and their exclusive little choosen click of POWER SELLERS HAVE BEEN LET TO GET AWAY WITH WHAT IS GOING ON. i could see a few complaints would draw question as to valiity but when their are hundres probably thousands of complaints continually coming through these sites and nobody meaning the FBI, internet police, real police goverment, banking departments of states, attorney generals does a damn thing to stop them the only way we can achieve to be heard is through the use of our frustrantion and our anger and our determination to put an end to this long lived nighmare that has actually taken and destroyed many of our ability to carry on a business successfully or even save our credibility that they have managed to destroy and stomp on. I AM SERIOUS NOBODY IS GOING TO HELP US WE NEED TO GET TOGETHER BODILY NOT IN WRITING AND WALK OUR PROBLEM TO A SINGLE SITE WHERE THE WORLD HAS TO SIT UP AND TAKE NOTICE AND THOSE WHO SHOULD BE HELPING US WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO PUT AN END TO THIS ANYBODY ELSE WITH ME

LOCATION 1 OUTSIDE THE OFFICES OF BOTH PAYPAL AND EBAY LOCATION 2 ALBANY LOCATION 3 WASHINGTON

WE HAVE RIGHT S AND WE NEED TO USE THOSE RIGHTS TO STOP THEM AT ANY COST BETWEEN ALL THE COMPLAINTS IVE SEEN IF WE EACH CHIPPED IN WE COULD FUND A GALA DEMONSTRATION.

sorry for the caps in my last email message but as many of you know and realize The caps mean your mad and screaming well that is exactly what we should be doing and I can assure you quiet little cyber moses who quietly and orderly voice their complaints will not and has not done anything to achieve justice and someone to help

They are a bunch of legalized fuckin theives, all designed to get your money total fuckin scumbags. they anwer your mails with computer generated shit they dont care they have it so that you cant talk to any one personaly and no 1800# HOW DO THEY GET AWAY WITH THIS SHIT! It's time to exploit these assholes.go news media!!

Barbara, boycotting is the strongest method of nonviolent protest. However Ebay can shut down our auction sites for saying the wrong thing about paypal. I took a creative stab at them recently and protest by doing a book review on the book Paypal wars. Another on Your Bank is Ripping you Off. I added a catagory to My World. My favorite website Paypalsucks.com. I give people positive feedback thanking them for not using paypal. When my customers see My World page they can find out and out blasting of paypal. I have only lost 80 dollars to them. But by not mentioning them in my auctions and praising folks for not using them I am alerting buyers to the problem sellers have with Paypal. I needed some immediate gratification so I am taking any action that I can and still be a valued seller. See my auction site and My World page and see if it doesn't make you feel a little better. skymetalsmith

If anyone knows where people can unite to take action against Paypal I will be first in the que... I have read all the comments on here & many other forums, blogs etc. & they all echo the same kinda thing..

Receive payment into Paypal account - Email from Paypal (limited account) - Fax documents - Account STILL frozen - Phone them - Get nowhere - Wait 180 days - Repeat ..

I hate Paypal, I have been with them for 3 years & suddenly get my account frozen, I doubt I will get my money back even after the 180 days as they seem to have no codes of practice whatsoever. I hope they have a slow & painful death & they deserve all the bad publicity they get.

http://cqoutseller.blogspot.com/

i can't believe paypal declined a transfer of my money (not theirs!) to a gambling site for twenty dollars! after all i am not borrowing their money , it is mine from ebay sales that i earned and they already got their greedy fee. who the heck are they to tell me how i can spend the money i earn? are they kidding?, these arrogant scumbags! i hope someone else bombs their building and destroys them.

I got conned for ?360 for 2 ipods, never recieved money back, case is now closed and not adamn thing I can do, if there's any class/group lawsuit please email me at ashish_amin@lineone.net

I wanna nail these b*stards

staright up i fucking hate paypal with a passion i used to sell goods on ebay. every time i would get over 300 USD in my account they would freeze me up and make me go through the whole process whats funny is they would tell me to pay my fees but how in the fuck could i pay my fees when my account was locked???? they wanted me also to ship the items before they paid whose side are they fukcin on? i still have an account with 600 dollars in it which i forgot to take out and as soon as i try to take it out they lock me down and charged back the money charged me a fee and put my account on limited becuase i didnt use it for a while and they thoguth it was suspicoius

WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!

if it wasn for ebay paypal would have never exsisted.

GOOGLE CHECKOUT is 109802938490238092308X BETTER

FUK PAYPAL and if i cant get my Money im going to file a lawsuit

e bay gets people like me who are house bound and then takes the piss i hate what you do

I can tell you all you want about fakes sites on paypal or ebay because that i maked last 1 year...im just a simple hacker...who stole a lot of cards from paypal and cash it...anyone want to know about that...contact me at experience77777@yahoo.com ...dont worry about my ip..it`s fake.. :) ...i wait questions bye !

Hi,

PayPal put through a transaction twice and I have had an awful time trying to get my money back, even though they said that they would resolve this for me. Their service is appalling and confusing. At one point they said that I had made two transactions and then tried to help me to refund an organisation rather than my being refunded. In the main they have been very good, but they are obviously not prepared to resolve issues without legal threats, which is where I am currently.

They don't reply to emails and they are inconsistent when they do.

If only they were as slow taking money from me.

Mike

PAYPAL Fu*n SUCKS BIG Di. This company PAYPAL Took money from my suppliers account that i paid to a supplier showed this as a revercal in my account but this was without my knowledge or me asking for the funds back at all. I was happy with my purchase i never ASK OR FILED A COMPLAINT AT ALL. but this is the kick in the ass THEY NEVER GAVE ME THE FUNDS BACK NEVER CREDITED MY ACCOUNT 1 DIME. WHAT THE HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW TRYING TO CLEAR THIS UP IS LIKE TALKING TO A WALL. I'M I MAD???? HELL YES I PERSONALLY THINK ASSPAL WILL NOT BE AROUND THE LONG HAUL SOMEONE WILL TAKE THEM OVER DUE TO THERE POOR ASS CUSTOMER SUPPORT I CANT WAIT TO SEE THE DAY.

Hi all. I just recently closed my paypal account! I saw a post earlier about how a seller got burnt by a buyer. Here is my story...

I sold a laptop battery on ebay. In my auction i clearly stated that the battery had a dent in one corner, but that it fit in my power book so why would it not fit in yours? so someone bought it for 31.00 plus 8.99 shipping. When he got the battery, he said it won't fit and that he wanted a refund for all his money. I told him i would give him 31 bucks back but not what it cost to ship it and only when I got the battery back would he get his money. A MONTH later I get the battery in the mail. The battery had been banged up beyond repair and it was totally unusable at this point. Then to top it off, he files a not as described claim. WTF? Why file a claim when we already agree on the refund. BUT, once I got the battery all refund agreements were off. I called paypal they said that the battery should be in the same condition as when I sent it. I did not even hesitate to escalate the claim to a dispute. I kept receiving emails saying that the BUYER escalated the claim when it was I the SELLER who escalated it. I was so confused to the process that I called again! The next "CS" rep said that everything is automated that is why the emails that i got were not accurate. WTF??? Needless to say I lost the claim.

I got 2 conflicting reasons why i lost. One email said, it cannot be determined whether the damage occurred during return shipping so I would lose. The other, received after I went and paid the negative balance and closed my account, said that The damage to the battery was the reason why it was sent back. essentially calling me a liar! 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT REASONS!!! I was hot. I felt like the buyer has all the benefit of the doubt and can just say whatever they want to FUCK THAT. No more paypal for me. I am cutting back heavy on the stuff ebay too. It is just getting to hard to get quality shit now. If I can't afford a brand new item, then I probably don't need it don't need it.

I can't say I am done TOTALLY with ebay yet, but I am DEFINITELY done with paypal. I will be going to my bank and specifically telling them to watch for and block any transactions from paypal. And to contact me if they even sniff paypal coming near my money.

PAYPAL is trying to protect me and you. However, they have kind of a monopoly like a slumlord over small businesses etc. I transferred 2000 from my account to my wife (on the same account as transferred from) on Aug 20. It was debited and she received it, all well and good. On Sept 7, 18 days afterwards when I had joined her, PAYPAL "opened" an investigation and REMOVED the 2000 from my wife. I called, spent 2 hours, they said the only remedy was to fly back home and get personal bank acct info showing she and I were on the bank acct and fax it to them. NO PDF. NO CALL FROM MY BANK. I have to leave paris and fly to VT and fax the original. And with what money do I buy the plane ticket? the $2K we wired to Paris is gone.

The problem with this site is that like a slumlord paypal is the first to do serious business with classified ad and ebay acct. people. They are good at that. DO NOT OPEN A PAYPAL CREDIT CARD. They are a lousy, lousy bank.

pay pal is horrible. i sold a breitling watch a few weeks ago to which i had authenticated. the day i shiped out the watch the buyer was already doubting to why he bought the watch. i sent the buyer the watch and the papers. when the buyer recieved the watch he disputed with paypal that it is fake., and he eventually got papers saying the watch is fake. paypal then gives him the money back and tells him if he gives them the watch to destory they will end the dispute. how is that even logical. anyone can get papers for anything i can get an illigal citizenship. i even told them ill fax in my papers of authentication and they basically told me that wouldnt do anything, the watch is subject to be destoryed. EVEN if the watch was fake i sold it becuase i had moeny problems and the watch means more to me than 1500 dollars. the watch is not fake, and i think it is complete bullshit that they think they have the right to "destroy" my fathers watch which is worth well over 8000 dollars. what should i do?! i am more than happy to be involved in a law suite. fuck paypal! any advice please email ay9541@wayne.edu

I WAS upset with paypal for not letting me pay for 18.00 worth of purchases. But now I'm glad I'm locked out of their "services". I had closed a checking acct and chose not to enter another one. I left only my debit card available for paypal. They don't like that. They want full access, apparently. OMG,the way you all were robbed for months at a time,and of thousands?sick.

I am a business custom to PayPal, using their PayFlow Pro service. Their support is THE WORST OF ANY VENDOR we deal with. Not only do they not know their product, but the information from their support desk staff often contradicts what is written on their website.

I am on the phone with them now... I was told to hold a few minutes... 16 minutes passed before the support rep came back on line. They have absolutely no consideration for the client's time and would never volunteer to call me back. No, it's my fault that they're so disorganized.

They have billed us for things we never ordered and then require us to complete their credit forms. We first did this 8 weeks ago but the forms and the case reference number, which PayPal issues, has been lost. So it's back to square one. PayPal has no problem wasting our time or taking our money… I think it’s an integral part of their business model. And their Turnaround on a credit request is a staggering 45 days and that's only to get a reply.

IF you're a business and looking for a system to handle your online transactions avoid PAYPAL!!! They will only bring you a half-working solutions and loads of headaches. It’s hard to believe that a service so poor is seemingly so popular. But that will change.

As a small business the single worst decision we made in 2007 was implementing PayPal.

Continuation of above. Get this. PayPal just sent me their credit form with instructions to complete it and email it back. But it's a PDF form that automatically blanks out any text as soon as it's saved. PERFECT.

They guys re-define FUBAR.

Paypal are the most unethical immoral unbusinelike people I have ever had to deal with. You will spend 90 minutes on hold only to have someone read from a script "I can understand your frustration sir"! They can freeze your account and accuse you of money laundering with absolutely no grounds or evidence whatsoever. Apparently paypal does not earn a penny of interest while the money is being held...yeah, right!!! Of course not! Automated replies are their idea of responding to emails. Impossible to speak to the correct person. Accused, tried and sentenced without being allowed a defence. Verdict, guilty. Be prepared for many many hours of wasted telephone calls and sleepless nights to try and get YOUR money. PayPal are the thugs of the credit world. London yobs are angels compared to these people. They are untouchable - totally. Just as long as you know...I do now.

Christmas Eve Gift from PAYPAL : 11-3-07- I sold item on ebay. After 2 1/2 weeks and several contacts, buyer (300 all + feedback) finally paid using paypal. I shipped 11-26. 11-29 buyer starts contacting me every day "wheres my stuff" "mail came today- no stuff" "I want money back now !" . I responded to each inquiry asking her to wait as I just shipped 11-26. Two weeks later she filed paypal claim against me for $133. I had postmaster track package and I proved delivery- made on 11-29. I submitted tracking # to paypal, but attachment of document copy from computer file would not load from any of several computers tried on several days. I think paypal rigged it not to work. I provided tracking number at least and that proved delivery. Paypal's response on Christmas Eve day= The decide in the buyers favor, steal my money and give it to the buyer. I have been cheated. Paypal has not responded to any of 16 inquiries sent to different paypal help addreses.

Hello. My name is VB Leghorn and I'm a writer doing research for a novel to expose the questionable and abusive business practices of PayPal. It is my hope that with extensive media coverage PayPal can be stopped.

I would like to speak with you if you have any type of documentation from your PayPal experience. I don’t want any personal information, I’m simply looking for e-mail correspondence, phone records, anything that can substantiate claims against PayPal. Please contact me if you have documentation and are interested in being a part of this novel.

Thank you, VB Leghorn paypalunregulated@yahoo.com

Class action suit, I'm there too. PayPal is full of shit. I hate paypal.

I am a middle class America. I just wanted to make soem cash and started selling items on ebay. One day I logged in to my paypal account and it was limited.I called Paypal..and they said Lab lab lab fax this fax this Fax invoices whick i did. I sent an email to appeal@paypal.com and they told me that they dont want my business any more. no reason. I had my paypal account for 5 years. I am have perfect ebay feedbacks. We dont leave in the third country and you cant make business like this. I cant beleive they can get away with this kind of bisiness practise. They are holdin my $2000 dollar. this ammount is pretty big ammount for me. when you have 6000 left in your main account.

If you have a way to bypass PAYPAL, just DO IT ! this is the worst service over the internet . They keep frozen my account for no reason. Says a third party access my account !?! How a third party can access my account when there is no transaction since a while and why the hell are you asking me, id proof, business proof, fax ID, add another credit card??!? PAYPAL IS TO BE BAN !

I used paypal on my own website and via ebay. I was selling computer accessories and ink cartridges for about 3 years taking around £4000 per month.

Everything I sold was sent to a paypal confirmed address by registered mail. I had 3 years trading with paypal and not a single complaint or charge back.

I sold an all in one printer/scanner/fax/copier on ebay for £90 and posted it to the registered address 2 days after posting I signed in to paypal and found "investigation" next to the transaction and my account was Limited.

after dozens of email and 4 months my account is still limited and contains £2892 of my money which paypal have kept.

The FSA dont want to know and FSO dont care. Paypal are floating the law. They are providing financial services in differant contries they are suppose to abide by the law of each country they are dealing with.

If my bank did this then the FSA, FSA and Banking Onbudsman would all step in to put things right.

Paypal are penalising law abiding customers and allowing scum to continually con sellers. In my personnal opinion i believe this seller was the rightfull owner of the account and purchased the item with the sole intent of issuing a charge back and getting his money back and keeping the printer.

Paypal need to be suspended by each and every country where they dont abide by their law.

The exact same thing happend with my girlfriends account. When she finished her collage course she sold all her stuff on ebay for £200 the buyer issued a charge bank after she posted the stuff and paypal put here account to minus £200 which they keep phoning about.

BASTARDS

Paypal is completely devoid of any customer service. They have the system designed so that nowhere will you be able to make contact with them. This week I have wasted hours trying to change an email address in my account only to be redirected over and over to a page that asks me to 'contact the phone number below' on a page with absolutely no sign of a phone number.

The net is full of horror stories of how people have been ripped off by Paypal and there are class action suits in process against them. They really need to feel the wrath of customers and are one company that definitely deserve to be brought down.

I have used Paypal, and I have gotten hundreds of dollars frozen in my account. I have read about other such paypal horror stories at http://www.aboutpaypal.org/forums/

PAYPAL ARE FUCKING WANKING CUNTS, they so what the fuck to who they want how they want and when they want, fucking arrogant dumb assholes of the earth just like theyre self owned business partner fucking EBAY cuntsa as well.

I HOPE BOTH COMPANIERS GO DOWN THE FUCKING PISSER FOR EVER. FUCK EM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

these fucking paypal pricks in Nebraska are holding funds on my acct now for a transaction 4 months ago.

Fuck Paypal and their $200 protection. ASSHOLES never can help out!!!!

Paypal and ebay are in league with the devil. They have frozen both my accounts now and are referring me to the sale of counterfit goods act. If this was any other company on this planet I would be able to take them to court. How dare they claim with no evidence other than some snot nosed little twats bogus report, purely made so that he can keep his fucking sunglasses and not pay for them, that I am not selling genuine goods. The fact that I am vat registered and have invoices for every pair of sunglasses ever sold direct from the manufacturer or that I am listed as one of their retailers on their company website is of no interest to them. They are fucking with the wrong people, why they side with low life is beyond me. I can not wait to see them fall.

Here is a "me too".

I tried to make an Internet purchase from a merchant who uses PayPal to proces credit card payments. The purchase I was making was for about $5000.

PayPal came up with a screen saying that I needed to "verify" my account before I could make the purchase. The verification process was me giving my bank account information to PayPal. Ummm...no! Only an idiot would give their bank account information to some Internet company. The reason we use credit cards to make online purchases is in part because of the fraud protection provided.

I called the PayPal customer service, and all they would say is "you have to verify your account with a bank account". That mixed in with a bunch of "we understand". No, they don't understand -- if they did they would let me make my credit card purchase without trying to get personal bank account info that they DO NOT NEED for any reason whatsoever except maybe to take unauthorized money out of my account.

So the merchant just lost out on an easy $5000 sale, and I wasted my time trying to make the purchase all because PayPal refused to accept my credit card unless I cow down to giving them access to my bank account.

Do not use PayPal! If a merchant directs you to PayPal when you are trying to buy something, complain to the merchant. Let the merchant know that you will not pay through PayPal because of their horrible business practices. Demand that the vendor provide an alternative way for you to pay with your credit card.

If the merchants quit using PayPal maybe they (PayPal) will start to actually take notice.

Paypal scammed me out of $1400. Repeated calls and emails did no good. I discovered that my credit card numbers were stolen and fraudulent charges began to appear on my account. Only 2 fraud debit card purchases were completed when I discovered this had happened. My account is now minus $43. I called paypal and told them to cancel my debit card. Over the next few days the fraudulent activity continued. I called them again only to discover that they had not cancelled my debit card as they told me they had done. This happened the next day as well. They finally did cancel my debit card but refused to stop any activity from being processed even though they agreed that the activity was fraudulent. Obviously this was to cover their own losses. But it was also allowing known fraud activity to continue, which as far as I know is the same as aiding and taking part in the criminal act it's self. Over the next few days I discovered that paypal had altered my financial records on their site as well, and they deleted prior transaction information. Another case of clear defined fraud perpetrated by one or more paypal employees. They also were able to retrieve funds from my bank account to cover further losses. I had to close my bank account and open a new one to prevent any further illegal scimming from paypal. I am fighting back. I have written an entire story about what has happened to me and plan to post this to thousands of Myspace friends through my personal and music profiles on myspace in the form of a bulletin that goes out to all myspace friends. I have urged them to repost this story. If you have been victimized by paypal I urge you to do the same. If you do not have thousands of myspace friends I will post it for you if you write me. You as well as I and paypal know how damaging this negative feedback can be for paypal. In time hundreds of thouands of people could potentially read our stories and this could be very damaging to payapl in the long run. I will be sending this info on to paypal, urging them to re-credit my account with all funds they have stolen from me and leave it alone so I can take it all out at ATM's until it is all safely in my hands. I will tell them if they return my money in a timely manner I will stop all of these processes, otherwise I will continue to post my story on myspace every day until they do. I urge you to file complaints with the Attorney general's office, the FBI internet fraud division, call major newspapers and tell them your story and ask them to investigate, file complaints with the FTC and BBB as well. Send your stories to me at: childrenwithknives@hotmail.com So I can post them in my bulletins for you.

fuck ebay and fuck paypal !i loss $333333

Paypal refused refund because I clicked a wrong option and found no way to ammend or go back. I lost more than I could afford and my nephew got no birthday present. Thanks Paypal. Now shop on Amazon, not ebay.

Paypal owe me and dont want to give me my money. I sold some items on ebay and buyers paid me. I tried everything to get my money but they ignore me. They email me some stupid message. It's been months now still no sign of getting my money back. I believe Paypal don't care about anybody but themselves but you know what what goes around comes around. Youll see...

Please let me know when you are filing a class action law suit. I am in BIG TIME. Paypal is worst payment processor i have seen so far. these people are ANIMALS. They will devour your flesh from ur body, bloody vultures. Ebay needs to come up with their own payment processing platform and get rid of this 3rd party jerk

FUCK PAYPAL AND EBAY!!! I AM BOYCOTTING THE BOTH OF THEM!!! FUCKING CORPORATE WHORES ARE BLANTANTLY STEALING OUT MONEY AND DOING WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT. I JUST SPEND 2 WEEKS RESOLVING AN ISSUE WITH EBAY (THEY WERE CHARGING ME RANDOM FEES OUT OF NOWHERE) AND NOW AFTER MUCH AGGRAVATION, I COME TO FIND OUT THAT PAYPAL HAS DECIDED TO PUT MY ACCOUNT ON HOLD AND I CANT RETRIEVE MY MONEY UNTIL THEY DEEM FIT!!!! FUCKING HELL. IM DONE WITH THE BOTH. DOWN WITH PAYPAL! REPEAT AFTER ME.....I AM MAD AS HELL AND IM NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!

I don't use paypal any more. As a customer, I received a credit for an item I returned. Instead of returning the refund to my bank account (where they had drawn it from), they kept it. It took me about 7 phone calls to finally get the money returned to my account. Horrible customer service.

If my theory about hell is correct (you are stuck for eternity with others just like you) Paypal has some paying of its own to do someday.

Steve, Dallas TX

i want to kill paypal

I hate Pay Pal Too

I was customer with them for over 3 years no problems , then all of sudden I oder a item on ebay after gap f 2 years

First they said oh we don't know who you are any more, then they asked me to fax my driver licence again , and then fax them my bill and other information

Total Idiots !!!!

I have a 100% verified ACCOUNT - and all of sudden now I was un known

The item I purchased , I paid late on it - and then in end I did not even get my item and lost 30 $ I spend on the sale ...

Do I have that Pay Pal Account YES ...

Do I use it NO !!!

Why ? Because I hate PAYPAL and I did 80 + sales on paypal successfully before

PayPal/EBAY same company have mixed my email account again and money owing to me has gone to somewhere unknown. They are a disgrace and customer service is NIL! I have sent details to the SUN NEWSPAPER regarding the incompetance of EBAY/PAYPAL. SHOULD BE CALLED PAY ""NOT""