Gadgetopia

That's funny as hell, and just more proof that everyone has their own perspective. A lot of people claim that Macs are so wonderfully usable and such, but they drive me up the friggin' wall.

There's a downside to everything in the world, no matter how great you may think it is.

That was a hoot! Did you notice that he didn't actually do any damage to the G4? He was handling it pretty carefully. The iMac probably had a dead CRT anyway; no great loss there.

Yes, Deane, everyone does have thier own perspective, but perspective is dependent upon where you're standing. I've thought about this a lot since your rantings from last week, and figured out that your trouble with Macs is less with the Mac than with your familiarity with the way things are done in Windoze.

You know your way around XP better than 98 percent of all users out there, and can do so many things with it without thinking. Put you in front of a Macintosh though, and it's like you were dropped in the middle of Afghanistan with nothing more than an English to whatever dictionary.

You don't hate the Macintosh; you just hate how it makes you feel. Now doesn't that make you feel just a little bit better? ;o)

your trouble with Macs is less with the Mac than with your familiarity with the way things are done in Windoze.

Could the inverse be true for you?

dropped in the middle of Afghanistan with nothing more than an English to whatever dictionary.

A little off-topic, but according to this site 50% of the Afghan population speaks Dari and 35% speaks Pashto.

50% of the Afghan population speaks Dari and 35% speaks Pashto.

That's pretty geeky, Noel; are you sure you didn't score higher than a 35? ;o) (Oh, and by the way, Dari is what Afganis call Farsi.)

Could the inverse be true for you?

Definitely, without a doubt. But the difference is that I spend time in both systems on a daily basis. With me in Windoze it's more like dropping me off in Afghanistan after studying Farsi for a while; I can get around ok on a PC, but it's not as familiar or easy for me as a Mac.

That's pretty funny! I like the part when he give up and start crying!!!

No rebuttal needed. Many of the things are based loosely on fact. Truth is always funny.

I think I have done some of those very same tirades.

For as much as a like my Macs, I really hate Apple's policy of not having hardware based feedback like drive activity lights (is it locked up? is it thinking?). Then there is the lack of OK or Apply buttons on control panel dialogs. Oh yeah, there is the cat and mouse game of "which tiny icon" lets you add or delete or change or whatever in just about any Apple software and..... sorry.

This affirms my theory that every piece of software (or hardware) -- no matter how good it is -- will always have huge, gaping holes in them somewhere.

The fact is that I'm a bad person to complain about Macs, because I don't work on one regularly. Dave is probably the most qualified person around here to say what's better and what isn't since he works with both all day long.

If you did work with both all day long, I'm willing to bet you'd find that they both do pretty much the same thing, just in different ways. Can someone on a Mac do something that someone on a PC absolutely cannot? I really doubt it.

I'm willing to concede that if someone took away my PC and stuck a Mac on my desk, I'd learn to live with it. I'd find other ways of doing the things I do on a PC, and perhaps find a few extra things I liked while learning to cope with the things I don't.

But, I always come back to one point: would have a Mac make me instantly more productive? Um, no.

I don't know who is better or worse; and frankly...does it really matter? The reality is that if the Macs are truly far superior to Windows PCs; their market share would reflect that. Unless 90+% of us are disillusioned or under Microsoft's spell (Muaaahahaa!).

I like to think of the machine and OS as a toolbox. The real power is the software or tools.

I was helping a Mac user the other day with getting the artwork for his newly recorded CD to the printers (printing press). The problem was that he was using PrintShop - not the best choice because it isn't possible to save off a 300dpi TIFF and he didn't have a print to PDF option. He requested my help so I offered to take the provided PhotoShop templates and place his artwork and text on while holding true to his design. He agreed. I reach into my laptop case and pulled out my Dell Inspiron, which he first mistook for one of those Mac whatevers - I'm Mac ignorant. He was like "ooooh” until he saw the "Dell" logo and it was like I just told him that I backed over his puppy. The next hour was painful. I heard things like "my Mac has never failed me before" and "my Mac usually runs circles around things I need to do."

Eventually it came down to the power and features of the software and had nothing to do with the machine. If he would have had PhotoShop on his Mac we could have done the exact same thing.

I do use both all day. And Deane is right, you learn to like things about each of them. Lately I have begun to appreciate both OS X and XP for their general reliability and capabilty. Sure they can both crash horribly, but 5 years ago we had to accept nearly daily crashes in OS9 or Win98. (And those were whole system crashes, not single app crashes). But I love that I can add MP3 tags to files using the just the OS. Or see little previews of images or PDFs when I am rooting around in the file listings.

I don't think market share is the only indicator of a product's superiority. (How ever that may be measured.) There are lots of other factors. I see lots of superior cars, but I drive an old Civic.

Hey Tom, That would be true if the pricing were wildly different. Most people buying a computer will spend at least $1000, which could easily buy an iMac or their new little $500 brick. I would agree with you if comparable systems were priced differently (i.e. Macs being 2-3 times more costly than a windows machine). Facts are facts, sorry for reality check.

Bill G

Bill, (I just love the thought of me having a discussion with Bill Gates) I am not under any self-deception as to how the market comes down on Macs. The reason I started using them was because in the early days of electronic publishing they were the right machines. (for whatever reason)

If price was all that effected buyers, we would all shop at Wal-Mart and buy the house brand. But we don't and I am happier because of it.

Some of us have good reason to like Macs and hate PC's.

You know what I had to put up with when I used a PC? Windows 98-XP were murder, even with all the Antivirus, Firewall, Security Updates, etc.

Linux wasn't any better. This particular distro was Red Hat. It failed to work correctly, even on supported hardware. It was 6.2 though so I am willing to give Linux another chance.

I never did get a good computer until I bought my iMac with Mac OS X last year. Never had any trouble, and it easily destroyed my new PC's, even with only a 600mhz G3 processor.

I agree with Bill... furthermore, people who have trouble with Windows PC's either do not have a good firewall protection solution in place and/or do not know how to say 'no' to so-called 'free' programs that get your permission to install themselves and reek havoc on your system...i think this is more a 'nut behind the wheel error'. With a whopping 3% of the market, i don't know why anyone would write a virus to attack apple's systems (i would go after the big numbers). Even with that, there are anti-virus programs available for the mac's; which means that there must be enough of a need to develop the product). The other funny thing is that just a few years ago 'Intel' was the enemy and the macies were saying everything bad about the company (inferior this and that)...now, it is unusually quiet because apple are now using that inferior company's devices in their new systems! It is real funny to watch apple at their conferences because they can't promote their products without taking a shot at the other side...very juvenile and an interesting study in psychology! Microsoft doesn't force you to buy their hardware and software all packaged. You can build a system from scratch, buy a bundled unit or even buy a cell phone that will run a version of XP. I think people enjoy that freedom of choice and, of course, the amount of software available for the XP operating system far exceeds apple's wildest dreams. Bill and I have discussed this in detail and we agree that you guys are fun to watch and are basically fooling yourselves. So, have fun taking shots at the other side because only 3% may be listening!

With love and affection... Steve B

First, macs have about 5% of the market now. Second, someone writing a virus would gain more notoriety from writing one for a mac than they ever would from one on a pc. This whole "no one writes for the little guy schtick" is old. There were viruses for os 9, when macs had less marketshare than they do now. Any programmer will tell you it is much harder to write a virus to infect a unix based system. The simple fact is that no one has been able to successfully write one. It has nothing to do with marketshare, OS x is more secure, period. As for there being anti-virus programs for macs, PC users are the reason for that. My company has to scan and clean our macs all the time, because we become carriers for viruses. While they have no effect on our systems, they can get to a client's PC. There are also Word Macro viruses which are a pain in the ass, because then our word files become infected, and when we email an attachment, it gets blocked by a firewall. Again, these have no effect on our machines, but we must deal with them because of the other 90 some odd % of virus sponges.

Okay, first of all, the reason Macs have none to little viruses is because they are so scarce - as stated before. Don't give us this 'invulnerable' bullshit - it can be easily done. And, anyone who spends a little time in learning how to use a PC will VERY rarely contract a virus (god help the person that has a problem with a Mac machine... you're screwed!).
To me, Microsoft is like.. democracy.. while Apple offers a communist approach. Again, as previously mentioned, when you buy a Mac (you know, the overpriced $2,500+ machine with a what.. 1.2 ghz chip?), you are channelled and FORCED into purchasing Apple's products. Some people LOVE Macs because, wow, if I want to get a program I have... ONE choice! Great - this is really simple! They really, and quite truly have not seen the light - for some strange reason, some people like to be limited. On a PC, it's a free ball game. You choose your program, and hell, you can even (Mac users cover your ears) MODIFY it to CHANGE it! Apple is feeding off the market of people who will not commit themselves to taking the time to learn how to use a computer properly - and they're getting rich off of it. How Apple does it is beyond me, but Mac users need to understand there is much, MUCH better bang for your buck beyond the blindfold of Apple. (I'm typing this on my Powerbook G4. Tonight this machine has failed to open about three java applets and god knows how many movie files.) Screw Apple.

Personally, I'm a linux-user; I can see the merits of a system running windows (mainly that it's simple and quite easy, even for people who have no idea what the hell they're doing). Macs, however leave me totally in the dark; I am only 17, but I have been using computers ever since my dad got an IBM XT (I was 3), and I write (simple) programs on my own to accomplish what I need done. I know a hell of a lot about computers, compared to most people. To me, using a Mac is not simple; I can never get anything done, hell, it took me about a half an hour to figure out how to open the cdrom drive on one I messed around with in a computer store, so user-friendly interface with a mac (at least OS X, I've used OS 9, and I have to admit, I kinda liked it) is bullshit. A Mac is also an inferior machine for just about any process, hell, a G3 doesn't even support O3 optimization flags (for those of you who don't know what this is, it is a compiler option for efficiency of code execution; Intels and amds have supported this flag since the days of the PII). Also, the Mac OS is now built upon open-sourced software; it's like a version of Linux that basically has all the customization features ripped from it, so that stupid users won't screw it up, however, my main purpose for switching to Linux was because I felt advanced enough a user to be able to handle being able to ruin my system at a moment's notice, and I like the ability to optimize for speed. The machine I currently own also surpasses low-end Mac quad cores in benchmarks involving Half Life 2 (and from my experience, there are 3 things that test a computer's ability: gaming comes first, then video-editing/producing (close second) and lastly, drafting), the fact that my computer runs on a singl-core processor and can outperfor a quad core (4x as many processing cores as my machine!!!) startles me, obviously, Apple's machine power is truly nothing to be excited about. I have to admit, Mac's have had their merits in the past, but now, especially with the switch to Intel processors (inferior to AMD in every way) they are a thing of the past; they should be revered as such, but come on, they really suck compared to a half-decent PC (note: mine would cost about $900 to make)

Mac's don't have virus' because they're based on Unix. Does LINUX have any virus'?? Nope, cause it's Unix, and Unix makes DOS look very pathetic. Unix was the original multi-tasking operating system, and was built for servers, thus having a lot of security written directly into the core of the OS, vs Windows was simply written as a workstation OS, no security, nothing, zip! Then later they decide to "patch" some security into it, and well to be honest once you patch something so much it just looks like one big patch. If people think it can EASILY be done, unix has been around for 30 years but still nothing... ?? And i'm sure people would want to, because Unix is running on lots of servers with information worth lots of money... AT&T is one and i have no idea, i'm sure several big companies use them however i don't feel like doing the research just to find out, cause i really don't care.

Mac's are very far from being overpriced. A new iMac with a dual core processor, camera, wireless, bluetooth, remote w/ media navigation, DL DVD-RW/CD-RW, 17" LCD Widescreen display, for what, a mere 1300 bucks! And guess what, no 70 dollar norton internet security to protect it, and no 70 dollar norton systemworks to optimize the operating sysem (cause it doesnt need it, and defrags itself on the fly).

Currently macs are being switched to Intel chips, therefore processor differences will be zero between a mac and a PC. Formerly, they have been using chips made by IBM of the "power" family. These chips are usually a slower clock-rate than intel, or AMD chips, but people forget a very important thing. These chips are RISC chips, or "reduced instruction set chips" which basically means they are roughly twice as fast as a CISC chip "complex instruction set chip" which are Intel, and AMD. Therefore, a 1ghz PowerPC G5 would basically equal a 2GHz pentium 4 chip. There i said it, and it's true, and tests have been done, and benchmarks, and it's been proven already so dont bother saying anything back about that. Currently a G5 is available in a dual core 2.5ghz at max, and yes, you would need a DUAL-CORE 5GHz Pentium 4 to keep up (approximatly) Which no, does not exhist.

Apple switched to Intel for good reason, IBM's roadmap doesnt look so hot, and Intels looks much better. It's not about clock speed anymore, it's about the design of the chip and how it acts. Even intel admits they've hit a roadblock when it comes to pure speed. It's time to go back to basics and look at the architecture.

In terms of available programs there are several to choose from, not as many windows based programs, but still, several. Pretty much any task that a windows program does, there's either a mac version, or another software vender that makes something that generally does the same thing. There are quite a few reasons that their are not as many mac apps. One being market share, obviously. If there arent as many people using them, not everybody is gonna jump in and make software. People are in the software business to make money, so their primary target should be windows. Another fact is, it's pretty easy to program for Windows. Pretty much any bob, tom, or joe can make some software. What this does is make a TON of programs available, and you have about 100 to choose from to do one specific task. This forces you to research and figure out which ones are actually DECENT and which ones will crash your computer. Because there are so many flaws in the Windows OS there's a lot of issues when it comes to programming. Compared to UNIX, you get poor software. Unix programmers have to know what they're doing because it's a lot more difficult to do it. What this does for mac users is create a smaller group of available software but at a much HIGHER quality. I've ran tons of shareware and freeware and have never had a crash or single issue with the way the software ran. If my computer met system requirements, it just WORKS, plain and simple. No crashes, nothing.

People should realize they should purchase the computer that requires no maintence, and actually a computer where the instructs aren't USE, DEFRAG, SCAN FOR VIRUS', SCAN FOR SPYWARE, SCAN FOR ADWARE, OPTIMIZE HARD DRIVE, CHECK FOR ERRORS, SCAN REGISTRY, BACKUP REGISTRY, but instead, simple.. Plug it in, turn it on, use it. My life as well as other intelligent people's are worth too much to waste time with an operating system that must be babysat in order for it to operate correctly.

While there may be subtle differences, be those good or bad, between linux boxes, windows boxes, and macs, the easiest out-of-the-box experiance, usability, and general best performance is with a Macintosh. For someone who's into programming etc, a subtle difference may mean a lot which may steer them toward Windows or Linux for some particular reason but for the millions of home users, time will show that they will choose Macintosh, once properly informed and educated. (It's somewhat of a no brainer if you ask me, and several customers I speak with understand that immediately) ... (I work at CompUSA) Although there are times you cannot begin to persuade customers who were told by their uncle that Windows XP is the best operating system and to make sure and buy a computer that has that... sigh... Well on the other hand that gets me more items per sale! HERE YA GO! You'll need THIS, Anti-Virus THIS, Anti-Spyware THIS, System Utilities... and don't forget our 2 or 3 year service plan so we can have people come to your home to take care of system problems! ... $$$$!! Mac's are in fact, cheaper than PC's, when comparably equipped. (Since Mac's dont need any system/virus/antispyware software at all)

I don't know about you, but I just can't stand Macs either!!! People say that Macs are better for imaging than PCs; however there is no actual proof of that! Adobe Photoshop- a professional imaging works just as well on a PC as a Mac! Besides all that, Apple brags too much about their products, when they aren't really half as good as they may seem. unhappy mac

If indeed Macs do suck, then according to these research results, Windows sucks much, much more.

For those of you in denial about how you don't need virus protection for the Mac...I offer you these links from Norton that say otherwise (of course the religious Mac users will 'weasel' their way out of this one and blame the big bad PC guys).

Antivirus... http://www.symantec.com/homehomeoffice/products/virusprotection/nav10mac/

Internet Security... http://www.symantec.com/homehomeoffice/products/virusprotection/nis30mac/index.html

I'm sure these products were produced for no reason and do not add any protection to the 'impervious' mac (LOL).

Yeah, good one! Symantec says I need it, so sure, it's gotta be true. I'll rank this one right up there with the guy who e-mailed me this morning to tell me I'd won the UK lottery.

Sorry folks, but I think we've just been lied to by "Mr. Truth." Or do you suppose he lied about his name as well?

What a funny coincidence; just read this list of "Top 30 Mistakes Made By New Mac Users," and the fourth comment on the post was this:

31 - buying Norton Anti-Virus for Mac

Too, too true.

I just switched to mac from pc and I couldnt be happier. pc's are shit,..bottom line.

pc’s are shit,..bottom line.

And, really, how can we argue with such stunning reasoning?

I Agree, and i would like to add the fact that if or when something happens on a mac, you can do like any other PC person can do, and or fix it like any other PC person, not the same way of course, or "better", but simply different, in it's own technical way. Because some people also believe you can't be technical on a mac like a PC, but you can. And i dont mean to start some stupid fight though...because the last time i had an online "discussion" about macs and PC's it became immature...but yeah. Hopefully people can see both sides of the argument....er three sides if you think about it...lol

They say 'denial' is also a river in Africa. For those of you still in the river...read this excerpt from a recent news story on CNN...

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A malicious computer worm has been found that targets Apple Computer Inc.'s Mac OS X operating system, believed to be the first such virus aimed specifically at the Mac platform.

The worm is called OSX/Leap-A, according to a posting on the Web site of antivirus software company Sophos, which said the worm is spread via instant messaging programs

The whole story is here... http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/17/technology/apple_virus.reut/index.htm

I'm sure that this worm could never penetrate the impervious mac and it is simply propaganda from the PC side of the house. For the rest of the macies (who are not in denial), welcome to the club. There is finally a hacker out there who had so much time on their hands to craft a worm that could potientially affect a whopping 3% of the computers out there. Too Funny!

MAC SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK THE MACS AND PUT THEM IN YOUR SHITTY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If macs don't have viruses, spywares, and all of that stuff, IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THEM, THEY'RE MAKING THEM ON THE OS THAT IS THE MOST USED !!!. If you're a virus maker, would you do a virus for mac users, which is about 3% of today's market, or on windows OS which is about 91% ??????????? Think !!!!! If Apple's gonna go one day over Microsoft, Mac users : WATCH YOUR ASS !!!!!!!

I thought you guys might enjoy this video!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794

LOL

I thought you guys might enjoy this video! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794 LOL

I knew we had some sharp readers here at Gadgetopia, but golly gee; posting a comment telling us about the Google video that started this thread... That shows some true genius.

I have to say that I both hate Windows and I HATE HATE HATE APPLE. I'm writing this on a windows, but I've configured it so it's a dual-boot. (For those idiot Apple users, in case you haven't figured it out, I run linux and windows.) Anyways, Apple is the most pathetic company in the world. If you look at this rage over the Ipod, you just have to laugh. "Oh, WOW! A portable hard drive attached to a mp3 player! I wish I had thought of that!" Actually, I have to admit that the OS X does look fast, but it's Apple's concept of usability that annoys me. I am glad that finally they base it on UNIX, but it's power is pathetic. I looked at the bottom of the screen, and what did I see? OH WOW, pretty colors, and a graphical interface! Oh it's so pretty. I looked for programming, terminal, perl compilers, C++, java, anything. Then I realized something. IT WASN"T THERE. I look, and I see web browser, audio player, movie player, word, etc., but that's it. I would understand if you are too much of a pretentious idiot to figure out how to run basic programs (OH NO! A terminal! Die linux, DIE!) than you might want to buy a barebones (yes, barebones) operating system. But to pay $100+? I don't think so. There are plenty of open source (free, basically) linux distros that have more than macs, AND windows. Linux rules.

--DiSiNfEcTeD

Its still personal preference. I think Macs totally sucked and i hated them, until OSX came out. I perfer Macs in most every way, but maybe thats because I was a Linux geek before that. I do know Windows pretty well, and have more Windows computers that I've built, than I have Macs

and for the person posting about the "LeapA virus" you need to learn more about it. You can only get infected by it if you accept the message, click to download the file, click to open the file, then give it your administrator password when it prompts for it...

And whoever is going on about RISC and CISC need to update their knowledge by about 10 years. a PPC chip is not just as fast at half the frequency of a P4... but P4s are total junk anyways, which is why Apple isnt using them.

Uhm...Mr. Doh, That is the way you get most viruses. They don't install themselves. It is kind of like this... when someone knocks on the door of your home. The onus is on you to let them in or keep them outside. Whatever decision you make has nothing to do with the integrity of you home. Your actions (or inactions) are the reason that computers get infected. Just because very few threats have been targeted for the Macs, does not mean that the Macs are more secure. It means they have enjoyed the 'lack of interest' by hackers who shoot for the big target instead of the bb-sized one.

I've always thought the market-share argument is great because when you are discussing computers; 90% market share means nothing to the religious Mac users. However, if we discuss, let's say iPods...who have a 70% market share; then, the market numbers are respected. I think, for having 3% market share, the Macs get way too much attention. Windows runs the world and Macs just run away.

I have been a Mac user for a little over 4 years, and a linux user for over 7. (just estimating here). anyone here who is considering buying a PC, from any company, you are wasting your money.

PC's (and yes, I've used windows for at least 10 years in my office, all the way back to 3.1) are piles of shit. this weekend, or whenever you have free time, i want you to [in your mind] make the computer look simpler. without tons and tons of cables. then take away the viruses, the trojan horses, the spyware/adware, the ugly Operating System, and the stupid looking Intel sticker. this is what a mac looks like. macs are MADE to be used by students, scientists, photographers, and other forms of art (movie editing w/ Final Cut Pro, etc.) and especially people who are fed up with the windows world.

tim makes a valid, yet very incorrect point. first, he said " you are channelled and FORCED into purchasing Apple’s products." tim, to put it lightly, you're a fucking dumbass. nobody can honestly be this stupid. there are over 19,000 applications available for the mac, including many games (including doom 3 and halo), and THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF NON-APPLE PRODUCTS. then, he says "Don’t give us this ‘invulnerable’ bullshit - it can be easily done". Sorry to disappoint you tim, but unfortunately you a very wrong. you see tim, around the early 1990s, a new OS called UNIX was born. UNIX requires an administrator password to run anything that could even be considered hazardous to the system. mac os x is literally just a UNIX kernel (thats the core of an OS) with the Aqua user interface. for example, any "virus" that contains code that asks for the deletion of files in ANY system folder. any new files put into the System folder, where all the OS and other system files are kept, requires an admin password (especially if it deletes more than one file at once). so you see tim, no serious damage could ever be done without a user/admin's consent. unlike windows, where you can literally delete every file on the computer using DELTREE in a matter of seconds.

not only that, but windows has been copying macintosh since its invention in 1984. so don't give me this horse shit about windows being better because it has a more diverse range of applications, it has almost 10,000x the number of viruses.

let's do some math, shall we tim?

let's compare the ratio of viruses for windows and for mac os x.

the estimated number of viruses for windows is around 190,000. the number of viruses currently infecting mac os x is 0.

that's a 0:190,000 ratio. turns out mac wins after all.

screwy ain't it?

and there you have it fucktard, mac is superior to the virus-ridden pile of crap you call "Windows".

first of all, you are the fucktard, mostly because you act like you know what you're talking about when you obviously don't. I've been using Linux (one of the actual Unix-based OS's out there, along with BSD, not a perversion of a great OS like the Mac) for quite some time, and obviously Unix is way above your head, because while it's true, you need permission to delete things, it's not very hard to gain such permission, and anyone that can gain that permission on a Windows box most likely knows enough to do so on a Unix-based box. Unix-based OS's are more secure than Windows, for the most part, yes this is true, but when they are messed with, it is much harder to recover them than a Windows box... obviously, there are some trade offs. However, the Mac OS is bullshit, pure and simple. I can have exactly whatever you have on your Mac (the same looks, the same behaviour, and similar programs (often better)) for free, while you pay more than $100 for your cut down version of a real OS. Basically, the Mac OS is like this: Linux, but without any of the configurability/modification ability of Linux. Mac OS is a toy for people that don't know what they're doing. Period. If you want a toy, and you don't know what you're doing, at least use Windows, the operating system that will enable you to interface correctly with the majority of the world, not Mac OS, the OS for retards that want to pretend they know something about Unix (which for your information came to be in 1969 (you were only off by oh... 20-some years, but that's okay)). As a side note, don't call people fucktards until you're sure that you're not one...

Alex, take your meds brother...you are dillusional!

Xerox invented the GUI (graphical user interface) in the early 1970's. Apple pirated it, added some 'common sense' features and called it their own and released it in the early 1980's. Microsoft build their GUI from the ground up (first as a layer on DOS, then as a a full GUI on its own) and released it in the early 1980's. Unix, then Linux, have been there for much longer (Unix since the 1960's); but have not had a GUI frontend until recently (past 10 years). Whether you like it or not, these are the facts. Xerox, not Apple or Microsoft, invented the GUI. Everybody else implemented their versions of it. In other words, Microsoft and Apple stole the GUI from Xerox. They did not 'steal' from each other.

Apple had the upper hand in the mid 1980's when the brought their pirated version of Xerox's GUI to market. However, they got greedy and forced you to buy their OS built on their boxes only (which still holds true today). To make matters worse, their boxes were extremely slow. Microsoft, opted to just be in the OS business thereby opening up the hardware side to whomever could produce what was termed back then as an 'IBM Compatible' machine. Market share (which is the only objective measurement of a products' success) has agreed with Microsoft's business model. Apple has been the biggest crybaby about it ever since (even with lawsuits that were dismissed). People are not forced to buy any brand, they cast their votes at buying time on the unit that will serve them the best. Unfortunately for you Mac addicts, 97% of the world disagrees with you. Whether or not your personal opion agrees with this or not, it doesn't matter.

In my opinion, if i were to buy a Mac, it had better damn well be more solid than a Windows machine. Especially, if everything is made by the same company! The funny thing is that they are not more stable than a well-configured Windows machine, I feel sorry for Apple sometimes because they try everything to bring big bad Microsoft down except competition. Have you seen their 'Switch' ads, those are hilarious and in retrospect completely ineffective. The great thing is that they produce a great media player (iPod), they should stick to that and quit trying to insult everyones intelligence by producing 'form over function' computers that have a small religious following with the mighty pastor 'Steve Jobs'.

That is my story and i'm sticking to it! :) "May the truth set you free"

Xerox invented the GUI (graphical user interface) in the early 1970's. Apple pirated it,

There's actually a lot of truth to that. The book "Dealers of Lightning" talks in depth about Steve Jobs infamous visit to Xerox PARC when he was exposed the very first GUI. The Mac followed sometime thereafter, and it's fairly accepted history that it all stemmed from what Jobs saw during his visit to Palo Alto.

So, I get a little frustrated whenever some talks about Microsoft "stealing" the idea for Windows from Apple. That's the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.

Ok, here it is, very plain, very simple. Apple is different than any plain beige/black box assembler. They're the only company to actually produce a computer from the ground up, and are very picky. Anything they produce will be made to be as state-of-the-art as possible. Mercedes-Benz is to cars as Apple is to computers. Sony is to TV's as Apple is to computers. You get the idea. If you want the benz you buy a Mac, if you are happy with a Geo you buy the PC that has plastic that doesnt fit quite correctly, looks tacky with about 20 stickers, and runs an outsourced 3rd party operating system that attempts to run correctly on about a million peices of hardware. Microsoft is a lazy company that cant really update their operating system, instead they add on to one that's been around since the stone age. Windows 95 was ok back in the days before the internet, sure it crashed sometimes but i'm sure Macs did too in the early days. Apple decided, hey, we've come to a new day in the world of computers and the internet, lets design something for the 21st century instead of this old stuff, lets rebuild a state-of-the-art OS under solid Unix programming, lets make it act and feel very common-sense, so anybody can understand it... lets make sure you won't have to run any "utility" software just to make it work correctly... with Apple you pay for high quality, anybody that owns one will tell you that. No other computer is worth the price you pay. A seven year old Macintosh will run better than a brand new PC with Windows XP service back 2, or are they on 3 now? ... Since apple controls everything since they actually make the entire computer, they are able to make sure that there NEW operating system, still in fact works well on seven year old hardware (I'm using a Blue & White G3 system from 1998 running OS X Tiger and it runs just fine) You will NOT find that with any new PC, because the operating system doesnt even work well on a brand new machine!!! You're better off paying about 300 dollars for a used iMac G3 with a 500MHz processor, because it will actually work well, for several years, without needing to even touch your dumb restore CD, or anti-virus software. - And to anyone who knows a lot about windows, and PC's (Like myself, also) Of course we can keep up our computers, we know what we're doing. You have to understand that most computer users are simply just that, USERS!! They shouldnt ALL have to learn to be very technical with Windows, and in my opinion why do the technical people bother? It's more fun to use the computer daily for hours, without having to waste precious time updating virus defenition, or running spyware scans, seriously. That's all i have to say for now.

Oh, and by the way. I've actually used Symantec's anti-virus for macintosh, just for kicks one day i installed it, just cause one day (before i was too educated about it) I thought hey, better be safe than sorry. But then after a little while i realized with a Mac I was already safe enough... Turns out that if you open the virus definitions it gives you an entire list of virus' it's protecting you from.

Funny thing is, it also tells you the TYPE of virus, oh and guess what, this is the good part. As i scrolled through the entire list (very fast i might add) the entire list is 90% PC Virus'. On the right side of the type, that's all it said, PC Virus. This basically means that the Anti-Virus software will simply let you know that you've got a PC virus on your system, and whoever sent it to you in an e-mail or something by accident should be told he has a virus. A PC virus will in no way harm a Macintosh, since it's looking for Windows files to harm. This is actually a good tool if someine is running a mostly Windows network, with a few macs, this way they can be informed of an infection on their insecure PC's.

Other than the 90% some of them said Java virus, and a couple other weird ones, i didnt see ANY that said "Mac Virus" cause well, there arent any!!!!

Ah, another ignorant n00b... time to pwn you Firstly, PC doesn't imply Windows... it implies the ability to be upgraded, and the ability to choose what components go into the box (unlike a mac, which will give you one choice, and never one to upgrade). Secondly, did you just insult Microsoft for using old programming? 'Cause I'm thinking that Unix has been around since oh... 1969, and Apple started using it in what, the late 90's early 2000's? Lastly, concerning the whole PC Virus thing... The term "PC" refers to one's hardware, rather than one's OS, and there is no virus that goes for hardware (it being completely worthless without software) so Symantec (a company built on sucking) got that one wrong; it should say "Windows virus" or something of the sort. Of course there isn't a "Mac virus" you worthless ineducated boob, Macs use "borrowed" coding, if anything, it would be a "Unix virus"; a "Mac virus" would imply that it applies only to Apple-based hardware, used in conjunction with their rather wretched OS (not saying that this isn't a hinderance, but it certainly isn't a virus). Also, as I pointed out before, any *nix based OS is more vulnerable to hack attempts than the Windows OS (though why anyone would even bother to hack the worthlessness of a Mac box is beyond me). So what, Windows has more viruses out there; I used a Windows box for some 10+ years without a single virus infection (except for the occasional one that comes with java coding, which sorry to say, mackie, you're not invulnerable to), and was somewhat amazed by other peoples' ability to collect viruses. I suppose it just comes down to stupid browsing. You want to look at all your "CLICK HERE FOR FREE PORN" sites, fine by me, but you deserve a couple system-hindering viruses for it. That is all for now, until another uneducated mackie requires some education, I shall be off.

I always like the 'car' analogies like the one 'Matt G' stated. The funny thing is when you buy a 'Mercedes-Benz' it will cost you a lot more than a 'Geo'. In the computer world there is no such disparity in pricing. 'Mr. Computer Buyer' can spend as little as $500 for any flavor of OS/Hardware; or they can spend as much as they like. If the consumer really wants the highest quality for the money, why wouldn't they just buy a Mac? It seems to me that if they are truly superior in quality and usefullness, there would be no decision to make and apple would be enjoying a big market share of the business. What I've learned from the religious Mac users is that ubiquitous facts like 'Market Share' mean nothing unless it supports their argument. However, to everything else in the market, this concept does apply. So, what it has come down to is a religious discussion, because facts are obviously ignored. I enjoy reading the BS that the mackies try to make everyone believe. The sad part is that they may believe their own BS!

May the truth set you free... Mr. Truth

Hey it looks like Apple has finally acknowledged that they need Windows on their machines to have any chance of gaining market share (market share is that term the mackies ignore but Steve Jobs doesn't). Anyway, i can already see that the drivers that apple will write to support Windows on their hardware may be designed to be just a little bit buggy (but not too obvious). This will keep the illusion alive that Windows is unstable and error-prone while OSX is something better. Be careful out there, these guys are desperate and who knows what tricks are up their sleeves. Apple is a pathetic company!

Fact is more beautiful than fiction, just as functionis more beautiful than form!

Mr. Truth

I'm not that computer literate, only fairly so. I would have to say that I have had a iBook for 2 years, and it has sucked. maybe the OS is better, blah, blah, blah, but the computer itself, the actual casing? CHEAP. The CD drive has broken twice, the mouse pad doesn't work. Oh yeah, and I have gotten a virus on a Mac. From a professor of mine. Oh yeah, the battery doesn't fit. It is slow as shit. Moreover, I tried using my brother's VAIO and I loved it. So, I'm sorry. Maybe I don't "get" it, but from what I have seen, Windows is actually fairly easy to use. From what I have seen, Apple buys into the whole notion of form over function. Seriously, a suck drive? A mouse without a right click? Cheap plastic casing? I've gotten so fed up that I bought a PC laptop. $1000, 100GB hard drive, 2+ GB RAM, DVD burner at no extra charge. And I can watch different types of media online without having to get a message on the screen that it doesn't play on a Mac. Fuck you Mac. It's a big fucking cult mentality. That's all it is. I should have listened to my dad.

The friends of mine that own Mac's (by the way im a PC bloke) seem to go out of thier way to try and persuade me to purchase a mac the next time I want to buy a new computer. Like Rachel (above) said "It's a big fucking cult mentality", The way my friends always do that, it would seem that she is right. I'll be damned if noone else knows what Im talking about with Mac users trying to suade us. Its as if the big guys at the wheel of Apple slipped a few dollars bills in their front pocket for buying a Mac, and promised them that there is plenty more where that came from if they can persuade a few friends to join them. And Im not calling Christianity or other religious groups "cults", but Mac users seem to be trying to shove their computer of choice down everyones throats just as religious groups tend to try and tell us that their way of life and belief system is the way to go.

There, I said it. Mac users cant deny it, and PC users can relate. But if they cant then strike me dead and tell me I cant spell.

firstly, the man you were talking to was NOT bill gates go to his damn email its like gowackoffinyourownbackyard. ur all so damn gullible. i like macs because they dont crash. running 10.4.4 doesnt have any crashes, so all this crap about it being crashable is bullshit. ive had my g5 (i want a macbook dave!) for about 2 years and it has never ONCE crashed. my friend had a pc laptop (peice of shit dell) and its big, bulky, SLOW, and its ugly. also, you can't even insert a fucking mouse without having to download 5000 drivers from who knows where. also, you said gaming comes first "computer-nerd". change ur name to "computer-poser"

u have NO clue what ur talking about. i put a new nvidia graphics card in my computer and it was beautiful how it ran games. u compare ur trash dump make it at home pc to a mac? hmm maybe because u got a better card, and also u use directx, and macs use opengl and openal for most games. im surprised u didnt mention that, since its like comparing os9 to windoze xp. u scare me how blunt u are but u write a huge 5 page essay on how INCAPABLE u are of using a computer that doesnt shit all over u every other day. im also happy to say that, u said u made ur computer at home? hmm anyone can. throw together ur crappy plastic box and put a chip in it and hope it works. u cant make a mac. know why? because they are WAY to well designed and put together to have a simpleton throw one together with duck tape. GO to apple's website. you'll see how much you've been missing. they're also just more elegant looking. just more.. better?

Oh, Francis, how misguided you are. Firstly, Opengl can be used with Windows, and in fact, I have always used it over DirectX whenever possible, because it is a better Graphics Library. Secondly, I would like to point out that you never mention any proof of your extreme computer prowess (insulting everyone else's), except for the fact that you own a mac. You are also insinuating that every PC notebook is as much a piece of shit as a common Dell, which is simply not the case. All this about a mouse being impossible to insert is utter bullshit (I can make any standard mouse work with any computer without downloading a single driver). You also say that your computer runs games beautifully. I know this to be a lie, as there are possibly 3 games worth playing that will work with the piece of shit that is the MacOS. I would also like to point out that your best argument in favour of macs is that they have a pretty box. Your niavety will never cease to amaze me. Anyone can put any computer into nearly any box. The box does not matter nearly as much as the hardware inside, and even further, the software which interfaces with that hardware. You will conced that macs have wretched hardware compared to the modern PC, and, whether you believe it or not, their software is utter bullshit. It also doesn't help you much in convincing at least me of your intelligence that you write as though you grasp the naunces of the English language as well as a retarded five year old. Until next time, moron.

Is it possible that none of you can both spell and use proper grammar?? Reading this thread makes me think of "All Your Base Are Belong To Us." Besides which, people on both sides of the argument seem to be completely ignoring the facts.

I went to a store the other day and, believe it or not, they had a tiny section way in the back of the store with Macs. I went to go see what the mackies are talking about and, to my big surprise, 2 of them were in character mode as a result of a system crash or failure (i've been told they never crash...somebody lied to me!). The other 3 were alive but the interface was laughable. I especially like that bar at the bottom that animates when you hover over an icon (that got old real quick). The 1-button mouse really sucks (you have to do some kind of keyboard/mouse gymnastics to do things!). Finally, the general performance was awful. I guess the priority is to render graphic elements instead of doing the task i want. It is easy to see why they only have 3% market share, they just really suck!

In my opinion, Macs should never crash. Especially since you must purchase the hardware and software from the same company. If it ever crashes, there are no excuses. With Windows, it has to work with thousands of flavors of hardware, drivers and software. I have a Dell laptop for 2 years now and it has never crashed. It has shutdown programs that are not written well, but windows has never let me down. I don't know if this was a problem in the past, but it is certainly not a problem now. As far as performance, it destroys any Mac i've seen...Macs aren't even close!

Is there any good database programs for the Mac? Filemaker, to me, is like Microsoft Access's competition. Great for keeping lists and simple tables, but not a serious database. I guess you can't run any world-class database programs (SQL Server, Visual Foxpro, Oracle). Or maybe there is some kind of stripped-down web interface to these products, or maybe not.

I like Apple's new commercial with the 2 guys. The Windows guy is sneezing and ultimately falls down while the Mac guy is unaffected. They forget to mention that Mac guy doesn't sneeze because virus makers don't care about the a target that is about 3% the size of the Windows target. They make you believe that they are on some kind of even playing field and that viruses are attacking the equally. I guess this just reinforces the cult mentality that we have become accustomed to from that bunch.

It is also hilarious to see that they created this 'bootcamp' program on their hardware. I mean, why do you care if Windows can run on a Mac PC. Im my opinion, it is their last shot at gaining market share. It doesn't seem like all of their statements about how their stuff is superior to Windows is working. The reality is that you don't have much freedom or choice in the Mac world, why is kind of sad (i feel sorry for them in a way). It is funny because you never see any ads from microsoft that use the juvenile tactics that apple is famous for. Has anyone ever seen an ad that has asked Mac users to switch? Those people are probably too stupid to use windows anyway.

Score: Windows 90%, OSX 3% Mr. Truth

As far as performance, it destroys any Mac i’ve seen…Macs aren’t even close!

That statement from the same guy that wrote the first paragraph, which gave the impression he'd never laid a hand on an Apple mouse before seeing a handful of poorly configured machines in a tiny section of some unnamed store.

Yeah. Loads of credibility there.

That store was Comp-USA...Dave

Come to think of it... I dont think I have seen even ONE ad for microsoft on TV.

Fuck ALL MACS. They suck so much. Upgrade for them is hell. They are slow and unreliable. I can't see anyone enjoying a MAC ( oh yeah people who don't know anything about a PC like them as a doorstop maybee?) Anyways fuck MACS cause really when it comes down to it I would out of the job if there were only MACS in this world so fuck all you MAC users. I need to have PC's in this world to keep me employed. Thank Microsoft, Intel, AMD, etc. all the big computer companies for having problems so there are people like me to fix the shit for the every day office end user.

theyre only computers i dont know why it matters. find something better to argue about

look, Macs just suck end of story. I mean look at all the mac people out. Thier all stuck up in there crappy mac world. If u have a pc, u can easly upgrade ram, hard drive, graphics, sound, etc. When u buy a mac, its a computer in a box the is super glued shut. You cant upgrade, you have to through it away and blow another $1300 on another frikin computer. Also, Xerox did invent the gui, and microsoft and apple took it, made there own. Except jobs has to be a crap head and try 2 sue gates because he stole it from him. BS. They both stole it and made there own. Look, go to ur average company and look that the os. Windows ehh? See, there is the little corner with the macs in it. So PCs will prevail over macs, end of story. (by the way I typed this on an IBM that was made in like 2001, and its never crashed on me, even with windows xp)

I had a MAC before. And I have nightmares about it every night. Why, you might ask. Well, the question is obvious to all people (yes, that excludes you mac fanboys), MACS SUCK ASS. Macs are slow as fuck, unstable, UGLY, unreliable, HARD TO USE, AND YOU CANT EVEN FUCKING UPGRADE. Meaning, you HAVE TO buy a NEW computer every few years and burn 2-3k of your money, while with a PC, you can OC, or upgrade small parts slowly. MAC CANT EVEN RUN GOOD GAMES.

All the MAC fanboys will try to feed you bullshit like : "Macs can run games with some program, we have no virsus". Dont eat that shit. Sure macs can run tetris 2D at 10 fps, but can it run other good games like BF2?

No. It cant run it because : a) Its overpriced unstable hardware peice of crap can handle the graphics b) its shitty, hard to use, slow, and again, unstable OS doesnt support it. c) Game makers dont even TRY to make it for the Mac. Why? Because MACS hardware blows so much that it cant support the game. If the game makers wanted to make it support Macs, they would have to reduce the game's visual quality by ALOT.

Macs dont get viruses. Why? Because no one tries or makes viruses for Macs. Why? Because not alot of people use Macs.

Mac fanboys - dont feed people that BS about being invulnerable to viruses. Windows is more "vulnerable" because most "newbies" use the comp - meaning, they dont know how to not get viruses. All you have to do is not look up porn, dont install mysterious programs, for a home user.

Ok... here are my two cents...

First of all, people who use macs often claim that its SOOO much better for them to create graphics etc etc. The truth is, any computer PC or MAC can run Macromedia Fireworks, Photoshop CS, you name it.... So whats the difference? both platforms can run most productivity tools the same.

Macs are difficult to maneuver in. No one wants to have to push 3 buttons to switch applications, or get to some function. It should be as easy as a single click.

MAC's sell an image. Its a pretty image, all nice curves and big screens. But the truth is that they are cumbersome, and like someone said above... comparable to a communist nation. You have to do something a certain way for it to work properly. PC's provide a margin of error and windows provides a USEABLE interface. Stick someone in front of a MAC, and they are lost for weeks. Put them in front of Windows, and they will be up and running in no time.

Thats just Great you can create videos and make nice pictures. Im happy your in love with your one trick pony of a MAC. I personally prefer a tool that allows me to design graphics, make movies... and then when im done pissing around, actually get some real work done in AutoCAD LDD and Cyclone... then when im finished designing the world, I can relax to a nice game of Battlefield 2.

Those on macs never really seem to get past the 'pissing around' part.

and yes they crash alot

My wife works in an office of all top of the line mac computers... They all crash constantly, all the time. Shut right of. What a waste of money.

The funny thing about all of these 'discussions' is that, ultimately, we will be running most applications over the web through a web browser which means that if your computer (Windows, Linux, Mac, etc.) can browse the web, it will be able to run the application. I think Microsoft needs to position itself for this eventuality or it will end up like what 'Apple' is today. It is a huge paradigm shift and it is just around the corner!

Mr. Truth

probably the exact opposite will happpen Mr. Truth Apple will be more like Microsoft. If they will even exist in the distant future.

Mac users think diffrent so diffrent that they cant think for themselves at all.. its kinda sad i know a few that cry them selves to sleep some... anyways, cheers!

First off, to anyone who said there computer, of either OS has never crashed, you are lieing. That, or the only time you have ever used the computer you're one is typing a reply in this thread. Any computer I have ever used has, whether it is Windows, Mac, or Linux, at some point crashed.

Anyways, I'm in the PC camp and here are my reasons:

Upgradablitiy: You can upgrade a PC's hardware, you cannot upgrade a MAC. It is impossible to dispute this with any truth, and if you do, just try it once, especially on those lamp-like ones.

Looks: I personally think the Mac's design is repulsive and looks like some wannabe Star Trek device. My $50 windowed PC case with lights is much more appealing.

Programs: Macs (not counting bootcamp, I'll get to that later) cannot run EXE's. Anyone who has ever run a Windows PC can understand what this means, next to no programs for Macs. Mac users may say, well Macs come with the programs we need. Sure, if you want bottom of the line products for the extra cost of a Mac. I have used several different video editing programs and none of the programs crashed nearly as much as imovie, usually after working for awhile without saving. *Games: Any game that comes out for Macs has been out for PC for several months, and that's assumeing that the game will actually come out for Mac, which it usually won't. Would you invest extra time in a program to reach 3% of computer users when it already reaches 90% of them?

Viruses: Sure, PC's get viruses, you can't dispute that. But the informed PC user has good anti-virus software to combat this. The reasons Macs don't get many viruses are that, most viruses are .exe files, which Macs don't support, and I think the PC advantage of running .exe's far outweights any negative effects of viruses. Virus makers also face the same dilema normal program makers face, why would they make a program that could only reach 3% of the computer population?

The Mouse: I hate that worthless, one-buttoned mouse. Once you go to a PC mouse, you can never go back. I'll discuss the "inovative" 2-buttoned Mac mouse in the bootcamp section.

Price: I can get a top of the line PC cheaper then a top of the line Mac.

Bootcamp: If you use bootcamp, you pretty much just admited that the Mac OS can't run anything you need and you don't want to buy a new computer so you just upgrade your Mac, and turn it into an overpriced, ugly, unupgradable Windows. This is Macs way of admitting defeat and slowly eleminating the flondering Mac OS in favor of complete Windows support. Another example of this is the more "windowsesq" mouse (it has 2 buttons).

I have only used a mac at school, and the few times i have walked into the sterile looking Mac store, There is only one thing that ever impressed me, the huge ass LCD's they use at the stores. I can say truthfully that at school the macs have crashed on me at least 4 out of every 10 times I used them. Sometimes while browsing the internet and sometimes while editing a movie and most often when writing a document and trying to save. I'm happy to say my school replaced almost every mac with a pc this year. Strangly we had fewer server crashes this year, only 3, one was a kid tried to hack it. Last year we had 9.

after reading G-man's views i have to think. What if Windows users had a bootcamp like driver to run Mac OS? How many would download and use it? I dont think many would. Teachers and business exectutives would be most of the few. Mostly because no one wants to pay for 2 diffrent os's no one want to pay for 1 which is why linux gets more users than mac. Unless you pirate it i guess and that wont help mac. Which is good :).

It is funny to watch Steve Jobs and company plan the new releases of their OS and incorporate features that Microsoft announced years before. Windows Vista has been in development for a very long time and out to beta testers for about a year now. In the meantime, osx has gone through just about every 'cat' name in the family except 'Copy Cat'. Apple enjoys the luxury of being able to bring its os to market long before Microsoft can. So, when, new features are announced by Microsoft, Apple listens closely and incorporates those features in their product before Microsoft can bring them to market. The apple supporters call that 'innovation', it sounds to me like 'imitation'. Fortunately, most people see right through this and see how pathetic Apple really is. I think the bootcamp software is Apple's way of conceding. I mean, why would the religious mac user want to put that ugly microsoft os on their system? Why would a window's user want to limit themselves to handful of medicore software when they can enjoy the freedom of choice? Sounds like Steve Jobs and his flock are talking out of both sides of their mouths now!

May the truth set you free ~Mr. Truth

This my two cents on all this.... it's not the machine's hardware really, both are about the same as powerful. Nor is the OS either. My real problems is the monopoly both hold over their hardware in regards to their OS. true you could get Linux but that's even less compatible with most third party software than macOS. one of my reasons to pick windows over Macs is on the third party haxxor software... I hate Windows media player, quicktime, itunes and all that crappy software, I use other stuff like media player classic, foobar2000 and stuff. Also there's more programs for windows than there is for macs, I am a 3D animator and sorry to say this, but the mac is very limited in that field hardware wise. And PCs give you the option to build your own PC to your needs, something that makes Macs less desireable for me. Also... Since I hate monopolies and the way windows and apple handle their business bullying around smaller companies, I am proud to say I have never paid for any OS EVER...

I'm a 3D Artist and as far as I know, most big studios use PCs

i'm getting really tired of "Mackies," and how they go on and on claiming how fantastic Macs are and how they never crash and they don't get viruses. Most of these people haven't used Windows since 98.

As far as copying, yes both OS's copy each other as well as other companies. As for the lack of two buttons ? two button mice are usable with OSX... they just don't come with one - another extra to by.

I've used Mac's for years at work, at least 40 hrs a week - mostly using Adobe products - and one of the fun things they won't tell you at a Mac store even as you're wlaking out with your brand new G5 tower with the "fabulous" new Intel chip inside and your 1,000 Adobe CS2 bundle - is that Adobe products like Photoshop or InDesign are not written for the new Inel Architecture and although they will run - they run slow as mollasses on a cold day if you're doing more than cropping a 72dpi jpeg.

And the kicker is - at this point - Adobe won't have an Intel-compatible version until 2007.

So tell me how great Macs are for graphics and design right now?

Isn't that their claim to fame?

And isn't it true that Apple didn't switch to Intel because it was the best thing to do - it was because they tried shaking down IBM for more R&D and the same old price and IBM told em to screw themselves?

Windows Vista is based of unix idiot... lol..

Mac for LIFE!!...

PC?s suck sooo bad!

I?ve been a PC user since win95, and i switched to mac because i was tired of the fucking pile of crap windows is. Whatever i need to do in windows takes about 5 more minutes than Mac OS X.

Some people say that win is better than OS X cause it has more apps...bs 78% of that apps are created by a nameless lammer that only wants to feel important, plus they usually are a pile of crap. Just tell me ONE app in windows that is better and easier to use than iMovie? NONE, iPhoto? NONE, Safari? NONE (and don?t say firefox because its a fucking slooow retarded browser that takes bloody ages to load...)

The only thing that pcs are better than Macs for is gaming, absolutelly true, but not cause of hardware or software, its because availability.

When i try to do something on a pc it just drives me mad, because the retarded way Windows does things: Who the fuck inveted the Start menu?? It is the slowest way of launchig apps in the universe.

And the system tray? Lots of useless icons that just stay there doing nothing?

And the men? bar on the top of every fucking window?? What a retarded way of wasting screen space!!!

The maximize button: It just makes the Windows take all the screen space, nooo it cant just adjust the size to be the best for the document, nooo, it wastes all the fucking screen!!!

And of course it has no expose or something close to that?i need to move the cursor aaal the way dow and click on the retarded task bar?

My Computer: That is one of the biggest pieces of shit in the whole galaxy? instead of showing all the drives on the desktop, like OS X or GNOME under linux i need to go to the fucking my computer icon and open it!

Interface: instead of nice and smooth colors like in OS X it loof like a fucking smurf! Who the fuck designs the user interface of windows? A monkey using paint??

Viruses: In Windows you need to install fucking anti-everything! Anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-bill gates? you PC users suffering from asshole Windows, and Mac and Linux users surfing the web without any firewall or anti-something? Poor people?

In conclusi?n, Windows= Pile of crap, Mac OS X= Nearly perfect OS.

Sounds like more lies and preaching from the desparate 3% (Alfa989) who live in denial...

Windows is faster on the same hardware because it is designed to work on your task instead of alpha blending graphics to produce a ridiculous 'candy store' interface with blue 'joo joo bee' gel buttons. Function over form always wins which is why Windows has 90+% of the world marketshare. With that much marketshare you are going to have proportionally much more applications available to the windows user (yes, some of them are bad). However, a lot of them are very good and i have more than 1 choice or price point when i make my software selections.

The only point you made that makes any sense is about the gaming which ties right into the marketshare point. Do you think that the 'gaming' programs are the only programs that run well on Windows? News flash! That concept applies to the whole spectrum of software, not just the ones that you cannot find for the Mac.

If you don't like the menu system in windows...fine. The Mac's menu really sucks ass to me. It is always on top and the assumption is made that you never want to use that screen realestate for anything...oh no! let's all pray to mac menu...there is nothing higher! At least you can move the start menu/taskbar around in windows and you don't have this central menu that is always changing when you switch applications. I'm sorry, just like their one-button mouse, they got this one way wrong!

If you don't know how to resize windows in windows, then you are a moron. Of course the 'maximize' button maximizes the application. Otherwise it would be called "Let me read this moron's mind and size the window accordingly". By the way, in windows you can grab the window from any edge and size away. At least when you maximize in windows, it truly maximizes the application over the entire screen. Not the entire screen minus that silly fucking Mac menu on top.

You don't need to move the cursor to the task bar. Use the application switching keys to go between apps. And that bar at the bottom of the Mac screen that animates when you hover over it gets old real fast and even distracting...another design snafu. If you want to see all the drives your windows system has access to, there is another key combination that launches windows explorer that shows you just that. Do you honestly think that this wasn't easily available?

The cool thing about windows is if you do not like the 'themed' look, you can just turn it off and have a non-distracting interface that just does you task. If you are into admiring the interface, the are thousands of skinned themes that you can install in windows. You could even get those cute little jelly buttons that pulse.

As far as viruses, windows is the big target. If the Mac's were a target, they would have the same problem. Virus infection is mixture of how big of a target you are, common sense when installing so-called 'free' stuff and protection measures required because of your visibility. At 3% marketshare, the macs aren't even on the radar, the enjoy the luxury of being ignored. Windows users have to be a lot smarter about these things because 90+% market share makes you the big target. In my personal experience, my windows machine has never been infected by a virus or hacker, but that is just my experience.

I don't care if you use a Mac or Windows, that is completely up to you. However, you shouldn't lie to make your religious point. The reality is that 90+% of the world agrees with windows. Computers and software are not excluded from our day-to-day buying decisions. If Macs are as far superior as you say, then the market should reflect that. People don't buy PCs because they are worse than the Macs, or they are forced to buy a PC, or that the pricing is different (its not). You guys don't like to hear the market share argument because it blows a big 90% hole in your belief system. It's fun to watch you guys squirm your way through these arguments.

Mr. Truth

reduced instruction set chips were a lie to make you think that your mac was fast. It sounds really nice until you realize that macs still can't make games run decently without a lot of hassle, and the only thing mac has is that it is trying to own the young generation. PC was an evil empire, maybe the ipod was enough to corrupt apple to evil uncaring underhanded buisiness and fabricated "truths" that have brought it to a new low as being less friendly than xp pro and soon to come less dependable and process power overburdening just like the new silly windows we will soon have to deal with.

"Windows is faster on the same hardware because it is designed to work on your task instead of alpha blending graphics to produce a ridiculous ?candy store? interface with blue ?joo joo bee? gel buttons. Function over form always wins which is why Windows has 90+% of the world marketshare. With that much marketshare you are going to have proportionally much more applications available to the windows user (yes, some of them are bad). However, a lot of them are very good and i have more than 1 choice or price point when i make my software selections." Your words of wisdom truly warm my heart because i wasnt sure how to tell everyone why I prefer xp pro on a much more efficient machine that only does the work you want it to and no other ridiculous and unimpressive tasks. I want my computer to finish the task I give it without it having to make little clear pictures bounce or make a bomb shelter sign spin, and most importantly run at a high speed with more ram. macs used to be better, but that day has passed. It makes me worry when i see windows programs that are more process hungry than xp pro. We need no screen for detecting media, nor complex programs to play our music. simplifying our ways is the best way to improve on our technology. Pure processing power comes from the simpler ideas that rely on the best technology. Mac had it, but it belongs to windows now.

??Windows is faster on the same hardware because it is designed to work on your task instead of alpha blending graphics to produce a ridiculous ?candy store? interface with blue ?joo joo bee? gel buttons.?? Those ?joo joo bee gel buttons? make Mac OS X?s interface be beautyful, opposig to the stupid GUI of windows? ??I have more than 1 choice or price point when i make my software selections.?? I do too. ??That concept applies to the whole spectrum of software, not just the ones that you cannot find for the Mac.?? Are you saying than windows apps run better than OS X apps? ??At least you can move the start menu/taskbar around in windows.?? You can move the dock arround too, and the start menu-taskbar combination is the worst thing in the modern gui?s ??you don?t have this central menu that is always changing when you switch applications.?? That is the applicaction menu, and it changes the same as in windows? ??I?m sorry, just like their one-button mouse, they got this one way wrong!?? Macs come with a 4 button mouse? ??By the way, in windows you can grab the window from any edge and size away.?? That?s the shitty thing, your are going to move a window and you accidentally grab the edge and? bam!... ??At least when you maximize in windows, it truly maximizes the application over the entire screen.?? Yep, and if it is a multitasking OS, why do you want a window to occupy the entire screen, that?s silly and a screen space waste? ??Not the entire screen minus that silly fucking Mac menu on top.?? In windows it maximizes it except the taskbar? ??You don?t need to move the cursor to the task bar. Use the application switching keys to go between apps.?? I don?t want to use the bloody keyboard, i want to use the mouse, not like a 20-year-old DOS OS? ??And that bar at the bottom of the Mac screen that animates when you hover over it gets old real fast and even distracting?another design snafu.?? It doesn?t get old or distracting, it has magnification because you can put a small dock and you want to see the icons in a normal size?that?s what i call usability? ??If you want to see all the drives your windows system has access to, there is another key combination that launches windows explorer that shows you just that. Do you honestly think that this wasn?t easily available??? I don?t wanna press a fucking key combination, I Want so SEE THEM ON THE DESKTOP, not in a separate windows?that?s not even an approach to the solution?moron? ??The cool thing about windows is if you do not like the ?themed? look, you can just turn it off and have a non-distracting interface that just does you task.?? That ?non distracting? theme is ugly as fuck and makes me wanna puke?besides, it?s VERY distracting? ??If you are into admiring the interface, the are thousands of skinned themes that you can install in windows. You could even get those cute little jelly buttons that pulse.?? WTF?? They don?t pulse? anothe proof that you haven?t used a Mac at all..and if you get aqua widgets, they don?t integrate very well into the Gui? ??As far as viruses, windows is the big target. If the Mac?s were a target, they would have the same problem. Virus infection is mixture of how big of a target you are, common sense when installing so-called ?free? stuff and protection measures required because of your visibility. At 3% marketshare, the macs aren?t even on the radar, the enjoy the luxury of being ignored. Windows users have to be a lot smarter about these things because 90+% market share makes you the big target. In my personal experience, my windows machine has never been infected by a virus or hacker, but that is just my experience.?? If you were to make a virus for Mac OS X, you wouls be famous, everyone will talk about you!...It?s better to make a virus for OS X than for windows?

It isn't Windows, it isn't Apple, the Macintosh, Linux, OS/2, BeOS, OS X, or any other operating system that sucks, it's the fact that computers suck in general.

I love computers, and use them every day for various tasks simply for the fact computers can do things that humans can't. Id like to see any of you try to play Aphex Twin's Drukqs by hand using nothing more than conventional instruments, or hand draw any of the modern 3-D animations with perfection.

The point is, it's impossible to match the functionality of the computer. We use computers because it makes our lives easier and more productive. They happily do things for us like keep our addresses, messages, phone numbers, (cellular telephones are computers too, you know) music, office functions like word processing and spreadsheeting, and games all in one device.

That alone causes alot of bottlenecks, because software has to fight with other software, AND drivers, AND the intarweb, AND the shotty programming, AND the users themselves, who are mostly not computer professionals and don't have time to fuck around with anything other than getting their work done.

Different platforms are developed for different users, and that is what makes the computer market so great is because we have a CHOICE. You don't have to use Windows machines if you don't want to, you can still use Commodore 64s.

Either way, if it does what you need then fine. It's when they fuck up, or the user doesn't understand the platform that pisses people off. This usually makes the user end up saying that "it sucks", and either quit using computers, or go on to another platform. Everyone else who knows their way around computers, also know that it's bound to happen. They live with what they got, hope they backed-up, and reboot/reinstall/format/take to apple store/fix it themselves/whatever and try again tomorrow.

oh man, mac, how i hate you let me count the ways... here is my honest theory on mac (hope your in the mood for a rant)

firstly, people buy macs mostly because of the image that they are easier to use. (which I don't think is true all the time). macs can make somethings easy to a complete noob. they sacrifice customizability for making it less easy to mess things up. they offer many wizard and cookie cutter imovie solutions to things. which sometimes can save time - and sometimes can cost more time, but usually give you less control in some form. some say macs dont crash as much. well for me crashing happens on both machines. in my honest experience..more on macs.

from what i've seen. when a mac goes...boy it goes. it'll just shut off all the sudden and then when you run a diagnostic by holding some absurb key combination at startup it'll beep like 4 times to tell you something like the HDD is dead. though usability and smart design is such a huge part of their image. i find holes in their interface design all the time. im pretty sure this happens because so much of the design leaned towards overall aethetics. now i know there are some crazy talented people using macs, and i know that there is some crazy cool software maybe JUST for the mac. but for the most part, your options is software are pretty limited. why? because there are only like 5% minus you, mac users out there. if you are one of the rare few who obtain your software illegally at times, well that's gonna make things definately a little more difficult.

another thing that happened recently is an error code -35. i think? i looked it up and it had some unix definition for parameter conflict or something. but to a noob what the hell good is that. you might as well just put "there was an error" and an OK button. why would it just gives you a code, is it that hard to put that little line of what the code stands for there? it behaves like some cheap piece of electronics. what kind of usability is that. does it come with a handy reference taped to the side? no. i've also seen icons on the menu just poof in a magical cloud of smoke when you click them..nice effect.

i was also particularily fond of how my buggy imacg5 (g5freeze.com) shot out cds like a toaster when you ejected them. this mac was in the shop so much they just laughed when we brought it in. at one point the fan would zoom to sound like a rocket taking off, sometimes at startup, sometimes in the os, sometimes itd just be black and then do that. i love when a computer behaves like that, different behaviors randomly. when we'd get it from the shop it'd still crash in photoshop. ive never seen anything like that on a pc.

thankfully, i have an very fast dual xeon at work that increases my productivity by like 200%, but i still have that old imac g5 as a big ipod and to the interact with the graphic guys (fonts etc...) whom have crazy new g5s (which dont get me wrong are nice machines, it has like what 2 billion fans in it? and its wisper quiet. very nice) but i'll tell you that already they've given problems (one just shut down using ae and all the users files on the desktop had disappeared). i helped my mac friend fix it. turns out the computer somehow switched to a different user or something, anyway there was a big help tutorial like 15 pages long i gave to him. 15 pages man no joke!

someone already mentioned how there is a cult mentality around them - this is true. look at apple's whole marketing angle - to "be different" or "think different". What is different? Well I'll tell you. It is not the right way..haha no but seriously... It's like if you buy a mac you automatically become a cool, creative genious. You immediately have amazing taste in music, drive a jetta, and are interested in geopolitics. apple sells a story, like any other big brand.

another thing is that mac users can be so stuck up about their macs. again like a cult. but it's like oh you use a pc? oh you are different. i think different. really we are all doing the same things. its easy for mac users to feel as though they are driving a benz while the pc guy's got a hyandai. in actuality it is a status symbol because it is more expensive.

i've been a computer user for a long time. i owned a copy of wolfienstien 3d on 51/4 floppy and some 'wizard' software; started messing with batch files in DOS and eventually pascal 5.something when i was around 13 - just so some of you know where i'm coming from.

i remember my uncles mac. way before we owned a computer. it had a small weird monochorme screen that reminded me of a digital watch. i liked the HAL computer voices it would make. i remember opening folders and navigating a windows GUI for the first time. at the time i had no idea how much this new virtual space would be a part of my life anyway what the hell am i talking about..lol

back to macs, i can appreciate that macs have formidable processing power maybe that they are even very stable. but in my experience, I find macs very frustrating. obviously you're immediately thinking, oh that's because you are a pc user, our macs at school were always doing weird things and crashing you need a really nice new mac to get a good experience out of the mac os and even still i hate the way files are browsed in a mac interface, im sure this is a matter of preference, but anyway i find an overall slight lag in the interface. it isn't just to do with time, but with the whole experience of using the computer. this was one of the first things i noticed when i started using a mac at work. it's this feeling like there is an extra layer between me and the computer.

maybe macs are faster for processing some image apps and stuff (mind you you'll probably need to sell your car to get that mac). if they are, im pretty sure this difference is pretty negligable (like waiting an extra few seconds) who really cares. anyway from what I've heard/seen most big 3d houses use PC systems. maybe there are a few that don't. but the most, im sure they are on pcs. and these people are doing some of the most computationally intensive stuff.

another simple fact is (lets be honest) you can get a monster of a pc for the price of a good mac (esspecially if you're building it yourself) not only that but you also pick exactly what you want in it. what brand, what speed, what warrenty etc... like of course its way more expensive, look at the case, ever seen the inside of an imacg5? how did they fit all that in there? you gotta pay for that design. you gotta pay for that story. - marketing isn't cheap

also obviously, gaming. macs are not good for gaming. why? because most other gamers are using pcs. why? because they are better for gaming/upgrading.

it wasn't until recently that flash started to look decent on macs (and I'm pretty sure its only on the new intel macs - which i think of as macs with pc brains hehe). before that it was a joke (and still is to some of you mac users) how flash performed on a mac - and if you read some of the developers forums working on the flash player, you'll read that it was no easy feat for them to get it working. i think one of them even mentioned about apples memory bus architecture being way behind pc :o. "That's also the reason that it will almost always run slower on a Mac than a PC since the memory bus architecture and speeds of Macs generally lag way behind that of PCs." -http://www.kaourantin.net/2005/08/implementing-blur-filter-in-flash.html

in closing, i hope you've enjoyed my scatterbrained rant on macs. really they aren't so bad for what they do. they offer a simple alternative to people who want the simpliest computer they can find. if you want more control, you better go for a pc. wow now thats an essay. i guess i have a lot to say about the topic having used both. cheers! and lets all get along.

in the end your mac was most likely designed and made using pc's and pc system controlled machinery. no way a mac can do that. i would challenge anyone to find a part that is on your mac that was at least assisted partially by a mac to create/design the part.

semiconductors, fasteners, pcb boards, mouldings, whatever

Sigh..guys.. Dont you know Macs pwn?!? Sheesh.. We already have 3 percent.. Its ok.. crashing 65% of the time is fine.. After all, I live in a Mac-ommumist Manifesto. We don't have viruses because people are sorry for us.. The loading only takes 20 minutes,.

I think this whole mac vs. pc thing really has gotten out of control. I fail to see why using a mac makes me anymore intelligent and/or better off than a pc user or vise versa. I speak not as a computer expert, just as a college student who falls into the 18-25 year old with disposable income demographic who has made the following observations within the enclosed bubble that is the university campus:

1) On campus anybody doing/learning any sort media editing, and the labs that provide computers for video editing, use macs.

2) On campus anybody doing/learning actual programming (C++, java, etc), and the labs that provide computers for programming, use a pc usually with a windows OS.

3) When people talk about upgrading they're pretty much always pc users and are talking about just putting in more ram or getting a better video card.

4) Everytime I've heard or been part of a discussion about online gaming the computer of choice has always been a pc with windows.

5) I've never heard or seen somebody run multiple OS on a mac

6) Most people I've seen down at the tech help center are windows users

7) Pleanty of people I've talked to have mentioned how the computer they are using is a high end pc they built themselves at a fraction of the cost of a pc or mac bought in the store.

8) I've never heard anybody talk about building a mac to personal specifications.

9) I know people who have pc's but don't run windows on it, but another OS such as linux or unix. I've never even heard of a mac owner who does not run a mac OS on it.

10) Nobody on campus really cares if you're a mac user or a pc user. People are more interested in what you do with your computer or find on the internet than what OS you run.

There just some simple observations I've made. Draw your own conclusions. I honestly believe that if one system really is superior to the other then eventually we will see that system become the system of choice. I've used both and don't really have a preference towards either. I believe my roommate put it best when said, "If you use a mac, you're a faggot. If you use a pc, then you're a pussy."

I think this whole mac vs. pc thing really has gotten out of control. I fail to see why using a mac makes me anymore intelligent and/or better off than a pc user or vise versa. I speak not as a computer expert, just as a college student who falls into the 18-25 year old with disposable income demographic who has made the following observations within the enclosed bubble that is the university campus:

1) On campus anybody doing/learning any sort media editing, and the labs that provide computers for video editing, use macs.

2) On campus anybody doing/learning actual programming (C++, java, etc), and the labs that provide computers for programming, use a pc usually with a windows OS.

3) When people talk about upgrading they're pretty much always pc users and are talking about just putting in more ram or getting a better video card.

4) Everytime I've heard or been part of a discussion about online gaming the computer of choice has always been a pc with windows.

5) I've never heard or seen somebody run multiple OS on a mac

6) Most people I've seen down at the tech help center are windows users

7) Pleanty of people I've talked to have mentioned how the computer they are using is a high end pc they built themselves at a fraction of the cost of a pc or mac bought in the store.

8) I've never heard anybody talk about building a mac to personal specifications.

9) I know people who have pc's but don't run windows on it, but another OS such as linux or unix. I've never even heard of a mac owner who does not run a mac OS on it.

10) Nobody on campus really cares if you're a mac user or a pc user. People are more interested in what you do with your computer or find on the internet than what OS you run.

11) A majority of the students and faculty on staff use or own pc with windows.

12) In the computer science class I'm taking mac users have to use the computer labs because the program we're using, MATLAB, is not available for macs yet.

These are just some simple observations I've made. Draw your own conclusions. I honestly believe that if one system really is superior to the other then eventually we will see that system become the system of choice. I've used both and I can't really see why one is better than the other. I believe my roommate put it best when he said, "If you use a mac, you're a faggot. If you use a pc, you're a pussy."

6) Most people I?ve seen down at the tech help center are windows users

• quoting Arsienna

If you brought your mac to the tech help center on campus they would send you right back from where you came and hand you the mac tech support hotline number and a list of dealers that fix macs (if you're lucky) - they may also give you a small donation

I would tend to agree with Arsienna because we PC users are what we eat, i assume the mac folks are what they eat, as well.

The free market is the real gauge of success. Everything else is a religious "Should have, could have, would have" point of view. Judging by the way the mac community cannot promote their products without bashing the other side shows just how childish their whole 'sect' is. Of course, when we talk about iPods, then the free market system works again.

Don't believe those mac faggots, the truth is on the 'P' side! Mr. Truth

Judging by the way the mac community cannot promote their products without bashing the other side shows just how childish their whole ?sect? is.

Really now. Seems to me this entire thread is PC users bashing on Macs. I see reams of similar drivel everywhere on the 'net, but precious little going the other way.

I don't like Macs

Why you may ask? Because I like compatibilty. I don't give a shit about viruses - you can avoid that problem with a few clicks and downloads. I've used a computer for 5 years now and as long as I be careful and avoid things like "coolpics.exe" then I'll be set.

People who use the comparison of how many virii Windows gets compared to a Mac are just advertising their computer illiteracy. I'm sorry but anyone who can think somewhat logically can avoid getting a virus.

Also, someone said Macs are easier to use.. This may not always be a good thing to the advanced computer user. Because it's easier to use, this is usually paired with the idea of less options. Complicated things have more options and choices. If you can sit down and RTFM, then you can do much more with a PC.

Another thing is graphics. I don't know who started the rumour that one can do more graphics editing on Macs than PC's, but it sure is untrue. The leading graphical editing program as of 2006 is Adobe Photoshop. Last time I checked, Photoshop was available for both Mac and PC, and they aren't much different.

It just seems that when I use a Mac, I have to go slower and make sure not to "hurt" it. I don't like working with such delicate technology, when with Windows, you can swap out RAM chips, Graphic Cards, Motherboards, etc.. with barely any computer knowledge. All you need is a screwdriver and some rubber to ground yourself.

My choice OS's iare Linux SuSE and Linux Xandros.

I have to admit, Windows XP is rather buggy and can cause a lot of grief, but so can Macs.

Using a Mac is like watching Teletubbies - I feel that I'm being confined and over-protected. Windows may be like watching Rambo, but at least I can go about doing whatever and not worry about compatibility.

Whatever, flame me if you want, this is just my opinion and I'll never come back to this page again.

haha vince, i love your analogy of teletubbies and rambo.

i experience the same thing. macs to me are fisher price. they are meant for seniors and toddlers.

another thing is that mac users (typically not all) are not doing as complex computer activities - , they typically aren't programmers or 3d guys (again typically) but graphic artists or illustrators - dont get me wrong i have the utmost appreciation for this art but i dont bash macs b/c they are good tools for graphic artists - i bash them b/c well they are easy to bash and b, b/c a lot of mac users bash pcs because they are intimidated. and in general they suffer from an inferiority complex because of this. they see their pc buddy start coding mad stuff and browsing around their OS at near the speed of light and they're like shieet....pcs suck man...

next time you see a typical (not 1 in a million super mac geek) mac user watch them use the os. it's like watching a tutorial at half speed.

ive seen my buddy use his mac he moves at like 1 fps. lol. and if anything goes wrong or he needs to change file permissions or networking or something. he's like huh? how do i connect?

mac = ignorance to the rest of the world, no one uses macs for a reason they suck. Thats all you need you know

grab a hardcore tech (i live with my mom)(star trek for life) nerds who know something about computers and you will find they are the ones bashing macs.

grab an unemployed left wing pot smoking tree hugging flower child hippy pussies and theyre the ones owning macs and bashing pcs, give or take a welfare cheque.

hey man, I'm a hippy dude and I friggin hate macs. when I'm high they are even more annoying. mac is a fischer price toy it's not for real computer geeks. besides they are too pretty to really work that well. i also wanna punch that guy from the commercial in the face!

its also with where the money is. ill be hard pressed to find a better way to make money with macs other than to sell them,

example: look for ONE company who uses macs as their primary computer and are making more than macintosh itself, or even steve jobs.

MACS ARE THE LAMEST PIECES OF ** EVER!!!

A day in mac HQ:

ok guys, lets get to work making a buggy operating system even worse! take that critical system config app and bury in among a bunch of shiny things! take that ability to actually manualy turn the system off and hide it somewhere! take all functionality and speed and waste it on making the interface look nice

macs are all looks and no function

@Matt G (page 1) You are so right about CISC and RISC. Sadly, though, you have gotten them mixed up. PPCs are CISC, while AMD/Intels are RISC. Google it if you want. You'll be surprised at what you find. Also, CISCs need 2.66 times more instructions than RISC to execute the same task. Furthermore, a G5 can only execute 4 instructions per clock cycle (inst./clock), while Intel can pull off 6 and AMD can do 9 inst./clock. That makes and AMD able to execute 9/4 times as many instructions per clock, all the while being 2.66 times more efficient. That comes out to 5.985 times the efficiency. Therefore, your super-duper brand new G5 2.5 GHz chip can be topped by a 418 MHz AMD chip, produced in late 1998. Pwned!

pwnedx!!!

Macs are for kids and the computer illiterate. Hence it's huge single click button... so you don't get confused by two buttons and a scroll wheel. Sure the visual style on Macs is nice but anyone with WindowsXP can fairly easily download and apply new visual styles, there are literally thousands. The only thing I like about Apple are ipods... but soon I think Microsoft is releasing something even better.

Please, make it stop! Five pages of whining and recitation of age old myths about Macs is more than a guy can bear. Single button mice? G5 processors? Buggy OS? Microsoft releasing something better than the iPod? Good Lord, give me a break.

Do some research before you start slamming or it sounds like ignorant ranting. Oh wait... that's what it is!

I think macs look good and almost bought one. I have since lost all trust in Apple because of repeated false advertising.

http://www.macworld.com/2006/01/features/imaclabtest1/index.php

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2004Mar/bma20040329024483.htm

MCSTEVE: "Please, make it stop! Five pages of whining and recitation of age old myths about Macs is more than a guy can bear"

Single button mice? the stuff fairytales are made of
G5 processors? i couldnt find one if i tried Buggy OS? no way? Microsoft releasing something better than the iPod?

i think a $100,000 supercomputer can do everything an ipod does and i can get it NOW!!! what am i waiting for?

Apple should release products more befitting their psychology...

iDontKnow = new business marketing software iAyeCaptain = religious software by pastor Steve Jobs iMAnIdiot = mac user reference library for arguing with PC users iFlow = the single and only workflow program available iUD = hardware device used to 'birth' the disks that get stuck iCeCream = new GUI elements to compliment the candy store interface iKnow = realization that you have no choices iSuck = realization that your brain has been washed

May the Truth Set You Free... Mr. Truth