Gadgetopia

there is always a reason....

I agree, but finding it with nothing to go on -- no pattern, no symptoms, no error message, no log file -- is next to impossible.

Ah, I certainly recognize this :-s I have a computer which has been having this problem for ages; no matter if I am using Win98 or Win2K (fresh install), it often just hangs, most often when browsing the internet (with IE, Moz, Opera, everything). I've done a memory check -- nothing. Reinstalled everything a dozen times -- nothing. Switched to Linux -- Mandrake's installer crashed for no apparent reason; though when I was finally up & running the problem seemed to be less bad. Maybe it's just too slow; or maybe it's the video card (it's an ATI on-board thingummy). Yeah, I think I'll check that video card... Apparently, video cards are known to cause problems, and it's just about the only thing I haven't tried... :o) Hmm, thanks!

I just realized how the title of this page is going to work out in a few weeks. Google is going to pick it up and we're going to have dozens of posts from people wanting us to debug their system hangs.

Either that or we'll get people swapping stories of the toes they inexplicably lost to frostbite.

There is always a culprit, but there are seldom enough clues to tell you who it is. I work at a helpdesk, and yes I dread those words. We have this one user who just can't do anything right, not matter what system and she always finds SOME way to make it "just lock up".

The most common reason for a complete screen freeze, in my experience, has been that the processor gets too hot. Try leaving the case off, make sure the heatsync is there, make sure the fan is working, and make sure it's not overclocked. If it's an older board, check the jumpers.

"The most common reason for a complete screen freeze, in my experience, has been that the processor gets too hot..."

And you would know, Captain Overclock. :-)

I checked, and the processor runs at about 88 degrees (31C) at idle. I wrote a three-line script that looped endlessly and pegged the CPU at 100%.

After 15 minutes of this, the CPU had climbed to 111 degrees. It touched 113 once, but never went over this.

The motherboard core temp and the video processor temp were both 20 or 30 degrees cooler. The fan stayed under 5,000 RPM the entire time.

I did a little searching, and I found that system freezes from overheating happen somewhere north of 200 degrees. What's been your experience on the temperature required to overheat a CPU?

Incidentally, my son plays EverQuest regularly, and it has yet to lock during that. If it was going to lock because the CPU was overheating, I'm guessing that a four-hour EQ session would be the time to do it.

Did not have any problems until a new screen was installed. Have just bought a bigger 17inch Flat pro. And from the first day it started freezing for a few seconds. It is getting worse. Have downloaded drives to see if that solves the problem, was okay for a couple of days and now it has started again. The longer it is on the worse it gets. Has any body experienced this after adding anything. I am putting my old monitor back on and see what happens.

I have been Playing everquest for quite someime and now and i have never had Freezing issues. But about a month ago it just started completely Freezing up ( i had to completely turn off my PC.) I have chatted with many CSR's seen many websites and Nothing has helped.
I have disabled Everything associated with the sound card, I have modified and Deleted items in the eq.client i have forwarded a port for everquest on my router, Updated all the possible drivers, and cleaned the whole inside of the PC. I have 3 fans in my computer so i know that this problem is not heat related. No viruses in my pc either. I have windows 2k pro. Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 graphics card Which was recently purchased and installed into my computer.
If anyone can help me out with this i would be so grateful.

Thank you.

Well, you called it RE the title Deane. Here come the tech support posts. =)

Yeah, based on this, I'm closing the comments. For the record, it's still happening on my box, but much less often these days -- perhaps once every two weeks. Still no pattern except that it hasn't happened to my wife or son -- just me.

Well, last night I stripped the computer down to its birthday suit, removing every piece of hardware I've added over the years. Wireless card, gone. Firewire card, gone. Modem (don't ask), gone. Various USB peripherals, gone.

I installed a new hard drive, then loaded Windows from scratch. It didn't even get through the initial Windows Update before it locked again.

Right now, all that's really left is the CPU, motherboard, and memory. There's a video card, but I replaced that already with a new one and it still locked (I returned that and put the old one back in). There's a network card, but the odds of that being a problem are slim. CD-ROM? CD-RW? No idea.

What's strange is that it smells like a standard hardware problem. However, it didn't start until I formatted and reloaded Windows one fateful night. The computer ran on a stable hardware platform for literally years before that night. So it's a software bug...but it's persisted through three format-and-reload sessions now.

I have two memory slots, and I'm going to pull the DIMMs one at a time and run on a single for a while. If the locking stops, then there must be a problem with the DIMM that was pulled. (Although, I've already run a memory tester that returned no problems.)

After that, who knows? Perhaps I'll replace the CPU since it's getting a little long in the tooth anyway. I think my motherboard can support 1.8 GHz which would be a nice improvement over the 1 GHz I have now, whether or not it fixes my problem.

The saga continues.

P.S. -- Those Macs are looking pretty friggin' good right now...

If you think there's a chance it may be software (I doubt it), throw a KNOPPIX disk in it and run under Linux for a few hours to see if you have the same problem.

I wouldn't start over-idolizing the Macs as the panacea for this sort of thing. Rob tells me that they are pickier on memory than most PC boards.

That said, Tara and I discussed it, and we'll probably be getting one later this year...

"That said, Tara and I discussed it, and we'll probably be getting one later this year..."

I hear you. That visit to the Apple Store left me a somewhat changed man. I want a Mac, but then I want a lot of other things I can't cost justify either.

I got a new CPU fan this morning. The CPU is running about 10 degrees cooler than before, but I didn't really think that was the problem anyway.

I replaced the fan simply because the old one was so friggin' loud. I think a bearing was going out or something -- it whined more than my three-year-old.

Good investment for $16, but the search for the problem continues. I found a 2.0 GHz Athlon for $80. That may be the next purchase.

eMac 1.25GHz/256MB/40GB/Combo/E/56K - Refurbished $699.00 (go to http://www.apple.com/store and look for Special Deals)

http://www.apple.com/emac/

Your time is worth something too.

"Your time is worth something too."

Well, I agree, but the implication there is that this sort of thing would NEVER happen on a Mac, which I think is patently ridiculous. I'll concede that Macs are probably more reliable than PCs, but hardware problems will crop up on either platform.

Case in point:

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/05/03/willappleownupto.html

"the implication there is that this sort of thing would NEVER happen on a Mac, which I think is patently ridiculous."

I think you're reading a bit more into what I said than was intended. Apple has its share of problems with hardware and software -- just read through http://www.macintouch.com for a taste -- but troubleshooting any given problem on a Mac is much less of an ordeal than on a PC. Anyone who has spent any time at all dealing with both platforms will tell you that.

Apple gets knocked pretty regularly for not opening its OS to run on other hardware, but keeping things close like they do does have its benefits.

http://www.gadgetopia.com/2004/06/30/DocMemory.html

Ran this for three hours with no problems. It didn't find any memory problems, and it didn't lock during the time it was running.

I may try a longer test later, but I'm suspecting more and more than I don't have an overtly malfunctioning piece of hardware, just something that disagrees with an aspect of Windows at certain states of operation, like a driver incompatibility or something.

Essentially the hardest possible thing in the world to diagnose.